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Going FBO in steps

FBO

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#1 BlueBeast

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 05:18 PM

I’m trying to figure out the best/safe way to gradually go FBO.

I know the reasons behind needing a tune when installing 3” intakes. I’ve seen posts indicating that some guys have done only the midpipe and gotten a tune.

What necessitates bigger injectors? Is it the combination of intake and exhaust?

Is it possible or worth it to do intake, exhaust and tune without injectors? Would somebody doing a custom tune look at the logs and say "hey, you need larger injectors"?
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#2 Doug@WGP

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 05:21 PM

If you log the stock tune the injector duty can hit 100%... so pretty much anymore boost than stock requires injectors


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#3 GT-Rpilot

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 09:11 PM

Typical staged route to FBO is as follows:

1) Midpipe and tune (need to decide for midpipe whether catless, catted, resonated, non-resonated)
2) 3" intake
3) Downpipes and injectors (1000cc minimum, but may want larger if you are planning on E85 or turbo upgrade in the future)
4) E85 flex fuel kit and fuel pumps

There are two camps on step 2 - one is that adding the intakes will require injectors, other is that you can do it without injectors (definitely need them with step 3). I did 1-3 at once so I can't comment.

Catback exhaust is primarily for better sound, so you will only see minimal gains; therefore it's not considered a step - the OEM catback will flow just fine at FBO levels.
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#4 Castilly

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 10:20 PM

I got the midpipe first without a tune. Had it installed for about 6 months while i gathered the rest of the parts: intakes, DPs, injectors, flex fuel, and fuel pumps. Once I had all the parts I just installed the rest all together so I only had to pay for tuning once

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ID 1000cc injectors

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#5 BlueBeast

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 05:29 AM

Thanks guys.

My Armytrix exhaust came with catless midpipe so that's my first step into the FBO world. Where I live has full emissions testing so catless downpipes won't be an option for me. Limited availability of E85 will keep me on 93 regular gas so i won't be doing fuel pump.

It looks like my next step ought to be the injectors. I assume I can safely drive around with bigger injectors on the stock ECU, correct?

My final step would be 3" intakes and the tune together.
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#6 Boostd4

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 08:08 AM

Thanks guys.

My Armytrix exhaust came with catless midpipe so that's my first step into the FBO world. Where I live has full emissions testing so catless downpipes won't be an option for me. Limited availability of E85 will keep me on 93 regular gas so i won't be doing fuel pump.

It looks like my next step ought to be the injectors. I assume I can safely drive around with bigger injectors on the stock ECU, correct?

My final step would be 3" intakes and the tune together.


Nope, you'll need a tune for the larger injectors. You should just do the intakes and injectors at the same time, this way you'll just need to tune once.
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#7 LKNCPA

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 08:19 AM

I got the midpipe first without a tune. Had it installed for about 6 months while i gathered the rest of the parts: intakes, DPs, injectors, flex fuel, and fuel pumps. Once I had all the parts I just installed the rest all together so I only had to pay for tuning once


Did the midpipe alone dramatically change the sound of the car? Was your midpipe catless and/or Non-resonated? I'm looking at doing a mid pipe for mine.
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#8 BlueBeast

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 10:35 AM

Nope, you'll need a tune for the larger injectors. You should just do the intakes and injectors at the same time, this way you'll just need to tune once.

I was planning on doing the intakes myself and letting a shop do the injectors. Would i be able to get injectors installed then drive the car back home (2 miles) without the intakes/tune being done yet?
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#9 BlueBeast

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 10:37 AM

Did the midpipe alone dramatically change the sound of the car? Was your midpipe catless and/or Non-resonated? I'm looking at doing a mid pipe for mine.

Armytrix is loud. Very loud at times under certain conditions. It is catless and un-resonated.

I'm not sure how much of that loudness is a result of the mid pipe and how much is the exhaust.
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#10 Cutter_651

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 11:00 AM

The power is in the Flexfuel conversion... and it is safer for your engine. All the rest adds up of course but the beast thrives on corn juice. I am at Stage 4 on the list above with ID1300 injectors and very happy with how the car is running.

I don't imagine spending more on go-fast until I have finished upgrading the suspension and brakes. Then comes Trannie w/cooler. Then comes engine build, intercoolers and turbos. The plan is Xona Reds tuned to about 900HP with a fast rise and flat torque curve to the redline.
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#11 Boostd4

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 11:11 AM

I was planning on doing the intakes myself and letting a shop do the injectors. Would i be able to get injectors installed then drive the car back home (2 miles) without the intakes/tune being done yet?


If you are paying to have someone do the injectors...just have them do the intakes while they are in there because the intake manifold has to come off anyway. I wouldn't drive the car 2 feet without tuning it.
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#12 Cutter_651

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 11:12 AM

If you are paying to have someone do the injectors...just have them do the intakes while they are in there because the intake manifold has to come off anyway. I wouldn't drive the car 2 feet without tuning it.


Concur.
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#13 BlueBeast

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 06:10 PM

... I wouldn't drive the car 2 feet without tuning it.

Concur.

Then that means that I have to get him to do the tune too or get the car trailered to the house.
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#14 Cutter_651

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 06:53 PM

Well, speaking for myself, I would have the same guy do all three things. That could be you if you feel comfortable with it all. For myself, I would be fine with the bolt on part, but I just don't have enough understanding yet to handle the tuning.

That said, you may be able to find off the shelf tunes that will work fine. Talk to Cobb or whatever brand tuner you have. Maybe you could have the tune ready to rock and flash it at the shop after the injectors are installed.

I think it would be pretty safe to carefully drive the car a short distance to where it will be tuned with the new intakes. I don't think that would be true for the new injectors. It may not even run. Others may not agree and I will be interested to see what is said about all that.
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#15 BlueBeast

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 09:11 PM

My plan was to do the etune route as we don't have any local expertise with GTR tuning. I'll have to pick a tuner and talk to him to see what he thinks would be the best way to do this.
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#16 import36

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 07:21 AM

My plan was to do the etune route as we don't have any local expertise with GTR tuning. I'll have to pick a tuner and talk to him to see what he thinks would be the best way to do this.


interested in finding out the best way to go about this also. i'd also have to go the e-tune route so how do you get the car (tune-wise) to the point where it's safely driveable once everything is installed if the shop can't tune.

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#17 BlueBeast

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 07:35 AM

I haven't totally checked out the process but I'm getting the impression that you can tell the tuner what mods you have and they will send you an "Off The Shelf" tune that will get you up and running in a safe mode. Then you'll run the car to gather the data logs and send them the logs and they will work at giving you the custom tune for your setup. You may need to repeat the logging and receiving a new tune a few times to get it right.
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#18 Doug@WGP

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 07:38 AM

I haven't totally checked out the process but I'm getting the impression that you can tell the tuner what mods you have and they will send you an "Off The Shelf" tune that will get you up and running in a safe mode. Then you'll run the car to gather the data logs and send them the logs and they will work at giving you the custom tune for your setup. You may need to repeat the logging and receiving a new tune a few times to get it right.

Yup! We have "off the shelf" tunes for both Cobb and EcuTek on our website at shop.weaponsgradeperformance.com


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#19 Tim@SpeedByDesign

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 08:05 AM

interested in finding out the best way to go about this also. i'd also have to go the e-tune route so how do you get the car (tune-wise) to the point where it's safely driveable once everything is installed if the shop can't tune.


You'll want to plan ahead. For example, customer's that purchase parts & tuning through us, we set up with the tuner ahead of time. Usually by the time the parts are installed into the car, the customer already has his first tune map ready to go. From there, the E-tuning starts. We try and make it as seamless as possible.

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#20 franzcars

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 08:29 AM

Depending on which brand of tuner you go with ie cobb/ecutek you might be able to get OTS maps that are setup for each level, or 3" and injectors. That's what we did, just injectors, intakes and midpipe and a ots tune
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