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DODSON MOTORSPORT STRAIGHT CUT MOTORSPORT GEARBOX


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#1 NZ R35 GTR Posted 24 November 2010 - 10:10 PM

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Straight cut  gear sets available soon, currently under testing.
High grade materials.
Heat treated.
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Ratios on request.

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#2 Djreversal Posted 29 November 2010 - 08:35 AM

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damn you guys rock :cheers: :-) ... always coming out with the fun stuff :-p.  

How would this setup be for a street car?


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#3 'Q Posted 29 November 2010 - 10:57 AM

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I'd love to hear this thing whine when decelerating!

Edited by GT3240x2, 29 November 2010 - 10:58 AM.



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#4 seanm Posted 29 November 2010 - 11:20 AM

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View PostDjreversal, on Nov 29 2010, 06:35 AM, said:

How would this setup be for a street car?

Straight cut is loud.  I drove an R32 GT-R around with a PPG straight cut gearbox.  Drove it from NYC to DC, DC all around.  It was loud.  That car had a Weldon fuel pump , 4 inch exhaust, and the only gear it didn't have really loud gear whine was in 4th.  

In a car like an R35 GT-R, with the gearbox in the back, it might be a bit more quiet than right below your ear.


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#5 'Q Posted 29 November 2010 - 11:30 AM

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Other than it being loud...

Which one will last longer, the straight cut or the helical standard Dodson version?

How much abuse can the straight cut give?

And how fast will the straight cut version upshift vs the helical Dodson version?


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#6 'Q Posted 29 November 2010 - 11:33 AM

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View Postseanm@stillen.com, on Nov 29 2010, 09:20 PM, said:

Straight cut is loud.  I drove an R32 GT-R around with a PPG straight cut gearbox.  Drove it from NYC to DC, DC all around.  It was loud.  That car had a Weldon fuel pump , 4 inch exhaust, and the only gear it didn't have really loud gear whine was in 4th.  

In a car like an R35 GT-R, with the gearbox in the back, it might be a bit more quiet than right below your ear.

Its an awesome feeling driving with a gearbox like that! I had a Quiafe ( Trust ) sequential gearbox on my Endless R33 that i drove daily for a month, it was great!


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#7 seanm Posted 29 November 2010 - 11:35 AM

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View PostGT3240x2, on Nov 29 2010, 09:30 AM, said:

Other than it being loud...

Which one will last longer, the straight cut or the helical standard Dodson version?

How much abuse can the straight cut give?

And how fast will the straight cut version upshift vs the helical Dodson version?

Helical cut is stronger than a straight cut gear from what I understand now.    The shift is in the synchro/dogring,not as much the shape of the gear, from what I understand about gearboxes.

If you can handle the noise, its the way to go for big power.

Edited by seanm@stillen.com, 01 December 2010 - 10:30 AM.



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#8 'Q Posted 29 November 2010 - 11:47 AM

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View Postseanm@stillen.com, on Nov 29 2010, 09:35 PM, said:

Straight cut is stronger than a helical cut gear.   The shift is in the synchro/dogring,not as much the shape of the gear, from what I understand about gearboxes.

If you can handle the noise, its the way to go for big power.

Oh yeah! The best sound coming from a car is the gearbox for me, thats my high.

Im interested just because this thing whines and can handle the action. Im doing the Alpha 9/engine package, not too much power, but great for the track and i will be driving it at least 3 times a week when the weather is nice.  Glenn, want my car for testing? I've got a heavy foot  :biggrin:


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#9 Guru Posted 29 November 2010 - 01:12 PM

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SEXY!  Love gear whine (well when it's purposeful anyway).  If my PPG 1st gear ever gives up the ghost perhaps this will be the way to go?  Dare I ask cost?


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#10 NZ R35 GTR Posted 29 November 2010 - 02:48 PM

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View PostGT3240x2, on Nov 30 2010, 06:47 AM, said:

Oh yeah! The best sound coming from a car is the gearbox for me, thats my high.

Im interested just because this thing whines and can handle the action. Im doing the Alpha 9/engine package, not too much power, but great for the track and i will be driving it at least 3 times a week when the weather is nice. Glenn, want my car for testing? I've got a heavy foot :biggrin:


Although we have some in cars now and very happy with results we are looking at a "TESTERS" price and conditions.
We need to know how many ??



#11 NZ R35 GTR Posted 29 November 2010 - 02:52 PM

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View PostGuru, on Nov 30 2010, 08:12 AM, said:

SEXY! Love gear whine (well when it's purposeful anyway). If my PPG 1st gear ever gives up the ghost perhaps this will be the way to go? Dare I ask cost?


We are also producing a 2-6 set for those that have an upgraded 1st gear already.
Pricing is sharp. Dealers should have pricing by now.



#12 'Q Posted 29 November 2010 - 04:29 PM

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View PostNZ R35 GTR, on Nov 30 2010, 12:48 AM, said:

Although we have some in cars now and very happy with results we are looking at a "TESTERS" price and conditions.
We need to know how many ??

Email me. I have an Alpha 10 GTR and mine ready for you.


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#13 marky Posted 30 November 2010 - 12:44 AM

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would someone please be so kind and explain me the advantage of straight cut gears?

I know people use it on high horsepower cars with high load on the gearbox.
But if I remember correctly from back in school helical gears will withstand the same load when we calculated that....that was something that really confused me and I never got an answer on that.

Does it has to do with the size of the gears as you need larger/wider gears of a helical version or with the knife-edge load I have on a straight cut gears tooth?

I'd really appreciate if someone could bring some light on that!

Edited by marky, 30 November 2010 - 12:46 AM.




#14 seanm Posted 30 November 2010 - 10:37 AM

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Straight cut gears are more efficient at transferring power.   I have read some similar statements about the torque loading of a helical cut gear having the same or more load transfer capability.

Helical gears create thrust, which straight cut gears do not.  This thrust can distort transmission cases, and create issues.    On the older GT-R's we would always break 3rd gear on 500+ hp cars. It was the center of the stack, and one good hard shift/let out the clutch, and you would break all the teeth off the gears.


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#15 Russell1 Posted 30 November 2010 - 11:34 AM

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View Postseanm@stillen.com, on Nov 30 2010, 10:37 AM, said:

Helical gears create thrust, which straight cut gears do not.  This thrust can distort transmission cases, and create issues.    On the older GT-R's we would always break 3rd gear on 500+ hp cars. It was the center of the stack, and one good hard shift/let out the clutch, and you would break all the teeth off the gears.


This.

The gears aren't necessarily a weak point, so much as making everything else around them flex until the gear is so stressed breaks.




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#16 LuckyEff Posted 01 December 2010 - 06:05 AM

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Still not getting it =/


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#17 'Q Posted 01 December 2010 - 06:25 AM

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View Postseanm@stillen.com, on Nov 30 2010, 08:37 PM, said:

On the older GT-R's we would always break 3rd gear on 500+ hp cars. It was the center of the stack, and one good hard shift/let out the clutch, and you would break all the teeth off the gears.

Even with the HKS Dog Box, 3rd gear was an issue, broke mine granny shifting.


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#18 descartesfool Posted 01 December 2010 - 06:41 AM

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The whole point of helical gears is to intentionally create a thrust load (along the axis of the shaft’s rotation) to force the gears into engagement and thus decrease noise. The drawback is that this thrust force puts a considerable load on the case, and can actually lead to failure of the case or mounting  plates when too much torque is applied, or to the gears themselves if the thrust distorts the assembly leading to partial gear tooth disengagement and higher point loads, leading to tooth failure. Thus, straight-cut gears are not really stronger, but can make for a stronger overall assembly, but the amount of noise is pretty much unacceptable for street use. Many manual gearboxes have straight cut reverse gear and helical forward gears. That is why you get a significant whine in reverse getting louder the faster you go, but not in the forward direction.

Found this: "All things being equal a helical cut gear set can transmit more power with less chance of damage to the gears because the load is spread over a greater number of teeth. This same distribution of the load over different places on different teeth makes them run significantly quieter. However they are 1.) More expensive to manufacture, 2.) Are less efficient because of the additional contact surface area between additional teeth and 3.) They generate an axial thrust load that straight cut gears do not generate so the gear train must be designed to accommodate this axial load."

Have a listen to this BMW race car with straight cut gears, and think hearing damage !





#19 marky Posted 01 December 2010 - 10:26 AM

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Thanks Sean, Russell and descartesfool!

I actually forgot the point of axial thrust in my memories.
But all your comments verify the thoughts I had.



#20 Jared@SFS Posted 01 December 2010 - 03:58 PM

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Another reason to use a straight cut gear is to reduce heat in the gear box.. =D

Edited by JaredPink, 01 December 2010 - 03:59 PM.



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