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TSM elite plus stock engine and trans build


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#1 Formidable

Formidable
  • Location:Seattle

Posted 17 September 2017 - 12:21 AM

First of all I want to thank Doug @ WGP for installing these TSM elite plus turbos and getting them dialed in for stock engine and trans. Second I want to thank Cicio for providing outstanding customer service and spending the time with me over the phone to discuss my goals and options. I can't say enough positive things about both of these guys.

I started out modding with Doug to FBO minus downpipes. It didn't take long for me to want more power. I began reading up on turbo upgrades. I didn't want to go full built motor and trans just yet. For one thing, reliability is an issue. I daily this thing. Second... cash money! In addition to the 40+ k, I heard numerous folks say that you need to have some cash on the side for the inevitable problems that happen on built motor and trans. So... that was placed on the back burner for now. I didn't want to give up transient response. I hate lag! There are a lot of great turbo options out there but this led me to pursue stock manifold. I was initially interested in the Linney EFR 6758 turbos and placed my order with Ben. Due to some communication issues... that deal fell through. Doug and I started talking about the TSM elites. He mentioned he installed these for a few clients and the quality is outstanding. Most importantly Doug reassured me that the difference in transient response would be imperceptible from my level at FBO on pump on stock cats. I was a little skeptical... I mean these turbos are capable of 1300 whp! Cicio posted a dyno comparison thread awhile back. The chart that convinced me was the TSM elites vs FBO on pump gas. Take a look and you'll see what I mean. The endless reviews and the warranties on stock engine and trans builds got me. I found my turbos and placed my order.

The kit came in and Doug installed it without any hiccups. You know how rare this is with aftermarket parts? Some shit ALWAYS goes wrong! Not with this kit. Complete. Perfect fitment. Doug had the GTR for a few days. We had it on the dyno the next weekend. It's worth noting that Doug takes care of his clients. He charges $1/hp for a revision tune. I paid $200 for the tune going from FBO to upgraded turbos, fuel, intakes, SD. He was able to hit 760 hp at 600 tq to the wheel... Doesn't get much better than that!

Transient response is actually better than FBO on pump. Doug had to tune down first and second for traction. You can hear these turbos start to spool at 2300 rpm. Pulls hard up top. No drop out in boost. Perfect for the street. Overall very happy.

Performance:
-TSM elite plus turbos tuned on ECUTEK
-ETS race intercooler with Got Boost aluminum piping
-Boost Logic 3.5" titanium intakes with outerwears prefilters
-Curt Brown ported intake manifold
-Got Boost speed density kit
-T1R air oil separator
-Tial BOV's
-ID1700 injectors
-Visconti dual 485 billet, hardwire, and flex fuel kit
-AMS catless downpipes ceramic coated by Performance Coatings
-GReddy titanium exhaust
-Unobtainium titanium 104 system, (on order)
-Additional titanium components: hood prop, Titek front diffuser brackets, Reboot Engineering oil dipstick, undercarriage and engine bay bolts
-Buschur lightweight battery and aluminum tray
-AMS fuel rail, (on order)
-T1R harmonic balancer, oil pan, (on order)
-WGP/TSM built motor: CP, Carillo, ARP studs, GSC billet cams, valves, CNC ported heads, etc
-Shep 1K with drag pack
-HKS DCT cooler

Interior:
-DCTMS matte carbon steering wheel
-DCTMS matte carbon panels
-BRIDE Stradia Japan Edition carbon aramid seats
-GTRR matte carbon shift knob
-4 second racing carbon shifters

Exterior:
-Prior Designs carbon reinforced front bumper
-Zele carbon side skirts
-Overtake dry carbon trunk
-Overtake dry carbon wing
-Overtake dry carbon emblems
-Overtake dry carbon front bumper, (on order)
-Overtake dry carbon roof, (on order)
-Overtake dry carbon rear bumper, (on order)
-Overtake dry carbon rear valence, (on order)
-Overtake dry carbon skirts with brake ducts, (on order)
-Seibon DS carbon hood
-Seibon carbon mirrors
-Varis dry carbon fenders (on order)
-Varis dry carbon hood (on order)
-Autoteknic dry carbon radiator panel
-Xpel ultimate full front clip
-Ceramic Pro ceramic coating

Wheels/Tires/Brakes:
-Advan GT Hyper Black Machining 20x10 and 20x12. 20x11 on order for Varis fenders
-MPSS 285/335 combo. 295/345 ready to mount on wider setup.
-WGP Apex carbon ceramic brake kit
-Racing Brake forged aluminum calipers
-Tikore titanium lug nuts

Items to be listed for sale soon:
-Advan GT hyperblack machining 20x10 and 20x12 with 285/335 MPSS and TPMS SOLD
-Prior Designs front bumper with full xpel ultimate wrap
-Zele carbon fiber skirts with full xpel ultimate wrap
-Seibon DS carbon hood with quiklatch minis installed
-GReddy titanium supreme 94mm exhaust SOLD
-Jet black pearl OEM fenders with full xpel ultimate wrap
-Jet black pearl OEM rear bumper
-OEM rear valence with Rexspeed extensions


Reviews:

http://www.gtrlife.c...s-review/page-1

http://www.gtrlife.c...w/#entry3657170

http://www.gtrlife.c...d/#entry3654890

http://www.gtrlife.c...s/#entry3652994

http://www.gtrlife.c...k/#entry3529930

http://www.gtrlife.c...c/#entry3356746

http://www.gtrlife.c...nt-bolts/page-1

http://www.gtrlife.c...prop-bar/page-1

https://gtrlife.com/f...-skirts-review/

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Edited by Formidable, 29 April 2018 - 12:39 PM.

2014 Full Carbon Fiber | WGP Built Motor | ETS Pro1700 | Shep Stage 5 | Racing Brake | AMS | Unobtainium | Advan GT | Overtake | Varis | BRIDE | Instagram: @Formidable_GTR

#2 Phangstaz

Phangstaz

Posted 17 September 2017 - 02:44 AM

Wow! is that the power on pump gas? tempted for a turbo upgrade!


2017 GTR Deep Blue Pearl

 

Previous:

2016 Dodge Charger Hellcat


#3 AlexR

AlexR
  • Location:Brooklyn NY

Posted 17 September 2017 - 03:04 AM

My man! Getting stuff done. You going to be giving out the gapping for all in your hood now lol

Follow on IG  axr_nismo

2016 GTR Nismo Alpha Tuned 730whp Induction Performance
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#4 hunter

hunter
  • Location:EAST VALLEY ,AZ

Posted 17 September 2017 - 07:48 AM

Great post......... Stock engine and trans........ nice tune to get that done.


GTR GUY IN AZ

#5 Formidable

Formidable
  • Location:Seattle

Posted 17 September 2017 - 08:51 AM

Ha! It's a stinky beast now. Lots of character!

My man! Getting stuff done. You going to be giving out the gapping for all in your hood now lol


Thanks Hunter! Doug really dialed it in on 600 tq for stock motor and trans. He's the man. Very happy with his tune.

Great post......... Stock engine and trans........ nice tune to get that done.


Yes on pump. 92 octane. Check out the graph Cicio posted comparing FBO on pump a while back. These turbos are amazing.

Wow! is that the power on pump gas? tempted for a turbo upgrade!

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Edited by Formidable, 17 September 2017 - 09:22 AM.

2014 Full Carbon Fiber | WGP Built Motor | ETS Pro1700 | Shep Stage 5 | Racing Brake | AMS | Unobtainium | Advan GT | Overtake | Varis | BRIDE | Instagram: @Formidable_GTR

#6 Wicked

Wicked
  • Location:Inside Your Head

Posted 17 September 2017 - 11:53 AM

Congrats bro. Enjoy in good health.


Redemption 2.0 Tuned by Ben Linney = Smooth as Fawk!!
Switzer 90mmSS Exhaust = Loud as Fawk!!


#7 Goonthree

Goonthree

Posted 17 September 2017 - 12:29 PM

So you have a warranty on the stock engine? I assume if the tune blow up the Oem motor they would rebuild it for you?

#8 someone

someone

Posted 17 September 2017 - 03:04 PM

Risky for sure, specially when revving the engine that high. On the other side, I've always thought that a stock engine would benefit from a bigger turbo since the torque curve moves upwards in the rpm range and will also allow tuner to ramp-it-up conservatively to minimize the possibility of blowing up the motor. However, on stock turbo folds, there is likely a lot of back pressure is being built, which can't be good for a stock engine. I hope this never happens to Formidable, but if it does, please report back so the community can learn from other peoples experiences.

#9 Formidable

Formidable
  • Location:Seattle

Posted 17 September 2017 - 04:06 PM

Valid concerns boys and your thoughts are appreciated. First, there is no warranty on this engine and trans on the tune from WGP. However, Cicio offers a warranty to folks who proceed with his builds and his tune. If that is a priority, I would suggest contacting him directly. It was brought up in this thread because it demonstrates how far Cicio is willing to stand behind his products and most importantly, what he believes is a safe level for our stock engine and trans.

Second, the torque was kept at 600 for the concerns mentioned. I have heard multiple times that torque is what bends rods and kills the trans.. I wanted Doug to max out hp while keeping torque at 600 and that's exactly what he did. However, 760 whp on pump is risky business...

With that in mind, Doug suggested backing off to a conservative 700 whp for me to run on the street as a daily. The reason being that 60 whp difference is not worth the increased risk.

Obviously, we assume the risk of blowing things up when we make the decision to tune our GTR's. Whether that be FBO, turbo upgrade and beyond, our level of "risk tolerance" is going to be determined on an individual basis.

I'm on this forum on a daily basis. If anything should happen to the motor or trans before I proceed with a full build I will let you guys know with a detailed update.

So you have a warranty on the stock engine? I assume if the tune blow up the Oem motor they would rebuild it for you?


Risky for sure, specially when revving the engine that high. On the other side, I've always thought that a stock engine would benefit from a bigger turbo since the torque curve moves upwards in the rpm range and will also allow tuner to ramp-it-up conservatively to minimize the possibility of blowing up the motor. However, on stock turbo folds, there is likely a lot of back pressure is being built, which can't be good for a stock engine. I hope this never happens to Formidable, but if it does, please report back so the community can learn from other peoples experiences.


2014 Full Carbon Fiber | WGP Built Motor | ETS Pro1700 | Shep Stage 5 | Racing Brake | AMS | Unobtainium | Advan GT | Overtake | Varis | BRIDE | Instagram: @Formidable_GTR

#10 GTRHOLIC

GTRHOLIC

Posted 17 September 2017 - 04:17 PM

You can do two maps for that 92 alone:
1. 700 hp (daily use)
2.760 hp (when come across an aventador!)

#11 rcalcaide

rcalcaide
  • Location:Connecticut

Posted 17 September 2017 - 05:56 PM

Nice job Formidable. There are a lot of GT-Rs on stock block and tranny with upgraded turbos that are running thousands of miles on street and track. All about the tune.

#12 hunter

hunter
  • Location:EAST VALLEY ,AZ

Posted 17 September 2017 - 06:52 PM

Now that I have looked closely at the dyno  chart .........600 pounds of TQ from 4200 to 6500 . Really impressive to get it that flat with no rod bending spikes....... low down........

Really great tune...........


GTR GUY IN AZ

#13 BLURSPEED

BLURSPEED

Posted 17 September 2017 - 08:19 PM

Awesome. Enjoy!

#14 1800bigk

1800bigk

Posted 17 September 2017 - 08:43 PM

Dang awesome must be blast to drive now!

#15 Formidable

Formidable
  • Location:Seattle

Posted 17 September 2017 - 08:59 PM

Thanks Wicked!

Congrats bro. Enjoy in good health.


True but 700 whp is plenty for me. Coming from 550 whp FBO on pump minus downpipes.

You can do two maps for that 92 alone:
1. 700 hp (daily use)
2.760 hp (when come across an aventador!)


Thanks rcalcaide! Agree. Most do fine on a conservative tune.

Nice job Formidable. There are a lot of GT-Rs on stock block and tranny with upgraded turbos that are running thousands of miles on street and track. All about the tune.


Doug really held these turbos down. He mentioned 35% wastegate duty cycle. To level out the torque like that is impressive.

Now that I have looked closely at the dyno  chart .........600 pounds of TQ from 4200 to 6500 . Really impressive to get it that flat with no rod bending spikes....... low down........
Really great tune...........


Thanks blurspeed!

Awesome. Enjoy!


The ID1700's make the exhaust burble and pop at idle much more than my ID1000's which idled like stock. Doug gave me fair warning that this would happen. These turbos are loud. They scream at WOT. That and running no cats... This combination of mods transformed the GTR into a noisy, stinky, wild animal! It has a lot of character now... My coworker and a fellow GTR owner at FBO said this thing is "scary." Can't wait to see what this will do on full built motor and trans.

Dang awesome must be blast to drive now!


2014 Full Carbon Fiber | WGP Built Motor | ETS Pro1700 | Shep Stage 5 | Racing Brake | AMS | Unobtainium | Advan GT | Overtake | Varis | BRIDE | Instagram: @Formidable_GTR

#16 someone

someone

Posted 18 September 2017 - 05:41 AM


The ID1700's make the exhaust burble and pop at idle much more than my ID1000's which idled like stock. Doug gave me fair warning that this would happen.


I get the same behavior with my id1700x. I can eliminate that by running a richer AF at idle. Works for me and car idles like stock (no pops) on that richer AF mix. However for some reason, bank 1 STFT at idle rises to 120% while the other bank stays close to 100%. I decided to ignore that issue since care idles pretty well and both bank meet targets.

Edited by someone, 18 September 2017 - 05:42 AM.


#17 Uberryslow

Uberryslow

Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:12 AM

I thought there were certain tuners/shops that claimed id1700 idled like stock? I found that hard to believe

#18 Formidable

Formidable
  • Location:Seattle

Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:37 AM

Yep we are running rich at idle and Doug adjusted the pulse width to get them to behave. I believe with Cobb it is possible to idle like stock. I am on ecutek however.

I get the same behavior with my id1700x. I can eliminate that by running a richer AF at idle. Works for me and car idles like stock (no pops) on that richer AF mix. However for some reason, bank 1 STFT at idle rises to 120% while the other bank stays close to 100%. I decided to ignore that issue since care idles pretty well and both bank meet targets.


I thought there were certain tuners/shops that claimed id1700 idled like stock? I found that hard to believe


2014 Full Carbon Fiber | WGP Built Motor | ETS Pro1700 | Shep Stage 5 | Racing Brake | AMS | Unobtainium | Advan GT | Overtake | Varis | BRIDE | Instagram: @Formidable_GTR

#19 Cicio

Cicio

Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:52 AM

Really really glad you are happy with the kit! 

 

We put tons of these on stock engine cars and people love them!  Almost stock like spool and they aren't even working to make near 800hp!   

 

Thank you for the kind words and I really like that you pointed out the attention to detail that we take in our product... it isn't often people notice the small things that we do to separate ourselves from some of the competition!

 

Enjoy them sir! 


~N.Cicio
 
49579549671_a4d8b9958b_z.jpg


Call: 678-297-7770
[email protected]
cicioperformance.com


#20 Cicio

Cicio

Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:53 AM

Risky for sure, specially when revving the engine that high. On the other side, I've always thought that a stock engine would benefit from a bigger turbo since the torque curve moves upwards in the rpm range and will also allow tuner to ramp-it-up conservatively to minimize the possibility of blowing up the motor. However, on stock turbo folds, there is likely a lot of back pressure is being built, which can't be good for a stock engine. I hope this never happens to Formidable, but if it does, please report back so the community can learn from other peoples experiences.

 

 

I see very little risk in the dynograph.  We didn't tune it, but I know how these turbos respond and they are happy. 

 

 

At this level this engine is happier than almost any FBO E85 car out there honestly.  

 

Not only does this setup make less peak torque than a FBO E85 car it also has about 1/4 the drive pressure at this low of boost.  Now.. when we make 1300whp with the same turbos that is a different story but at 22-23 psi these things aren't even working.  


~N.Cicio
 
49579549671_a4d8b9958b_z.jpg


Call: 678-297-7770
[email protected]
cicioperformance.com




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