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Alcon vs AP rotors

Alcon AP rotors comparison

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#1 GotGTR?

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:11 AM

Hi,

 

I went with Alcon Rotors (front only) for this upcoming track season (road course). I really liked my AP rotors on my 2014 Black Edition back in 2016 & 2017. I had the AP paired up with Gloc R12, R14 and R16 eventually. I chose the Alcon's after reading up on them and the lower cost. 

 

Last year, after getting my 2017 GTR I stayed with the stock OEM rotors. I had gotten some life out of my 14's OEM rotors back 2015 through part of 2016, but since I went up to a more aggressive pad over the course of time... the 2017's OEM rotors cracked completely through after 6 track days. NOT attempting that again.

 

I'm curious if anyone else has tried both these rotors and if they noticed any difference. If you don't know already the Alcon's are significantly cheaper given you don't have to replace the hats. 

 

I had HUGE balls back in 2016 when I went to the AP rotors, because of the substantial difference in braking. I'm looking forward and hoping the Alcon's will perform similarly. 

 

This was the second day on the AP rotors. 154 mph to 110 mph on the curbing. Super dumb and awesome at the same time. 

 



#2 haul s

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 08:51 PM

I know this doesn’t answer your question, but I thought AP offered replacement J-hook rings for owners that already have their bells, at a reasonably close price point to Alcons.
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#3 descartesfool

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 05:09 AM

I am also looking at the Alcons too in 390 mm that fit on the OEM hats for my newer model GT-R. I have been using 380 mm PFC's on my 2009, but they don't make replacement rotors that fit the PFC hats I have in 390 mm. Considering the Alcons due to initial and future costs because of not having to buy new hats. But as with the OP ( I also drive WGI and know about the hard braking into the bus stop) I am curious about how crack resistant these Alcon rotor rings are. PFC's have been phenomenal and I have never cracked one through, just crazed them like crazy until it looked like too much and then replaced. Repeat.

 

Alcon model in question is part number DKF2222X758C24L/R

 

DSC_0373-2-2.jpg



#4 GotGTR?

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 12:29 PM

I am also looking at the Alcons too in 390 mm that fit on the OEM hats for my newer model GT-R. I have been using 380 mm PFC's on my 2009, but they don't make replacement rotors that fit the PFC hats I have in 390 mm. Considering the Alcons due to initial and future costs because of not having to buy new hats. But as with the OP ( I also drive WGI and know about the hard braking into the bus stop) I am curious about how crack resistant these Alcon rotor rings are. PFC's have been phenomenal and I have never cracked one through, just crazed them like crazy until it looked like too much and then replaced. Repeat.

 

Alcon model in question is part number DKF2222X758C24L/R

 

DSC_0373-2-2.jpg

 

So I spoke to one shop. What I was told is that they are made from British Steel which is a much stronger and durable steel. I may even move up to a R18 for the front depending on how well they do on the initial use of the R16 (Gloc)

 

I don't have anything else to offer on that, but all the research said that these would be more than adequate. I'm also found a really affordable roll bar so I can get the aero I need too for WGI. Not having proper safety or aero there has been holding me back. I want to touch or come close to  2:00.xx laps this year. 

 

What wing are you using? 



#5 descartesfool

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 05:23 PM

I'm using APR GT500 rear wing. I really like it. I use Hawk DTC-70 pads front and DTC-60 rear, and they work very well on track.

 

But I am going to need cooling for my new 2019 GT-R brakes. I had a Kansai Service setup with air guides on the sway bars and inlets in the front lip, but can't see anything available for brake cooling for the 2017+ GT-R's. Looking for brake cooling ideas for the newer model cars.



#6 GotGTR?

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 04:10 PM

I'm using APR GT500 rear wing. I really like it. I use Hawk DTC-70 pads front and DTC-60 rear, and they work very well on track.

 

But I am going to need cooling for my new 2019 GT-R brakes. I had a Kansai Service setup with air guides on the sway bars and inlets in the front lip, but can't see anything available for brake cooling for the 2017+ GT-R's. Looking for brake cooling ideas for the newer model cars.

 

I was offered that wing for $1000 and all my friends said it was crap. I don't know much about wings. So, I just said forget it. Maybe I should reconsider. 

 

I had DTC-70's on my GTR at WGI. I bought them off someone else there. These pads turned my Brembo's brown. So, I won't use them again. I have had incredible results from the Gloc pads. 

 

I don't know of any cooling for the newer front grill. Sounds like some custom fabricating will be needed. I've never had any over heating issues. So, I have not addressed it. 

 

I'm just really sick of the timing getting pulled from the car. Other than using 100 octane or going to E85 a lot of the other options seem to be bandaid fixes. This alone has had me looking at Corvette Grand Sports and going with a NA car. 



#7 descartesfool

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 11:01 AM

I would say your friends don't know what they are talking about in terms of wings. Just check out their aero data in terms of lift over drag. The APR wing is actually designed as a real wing unlike virtually all other wings which are just for decor. aka looks like a wing, but not really producing good downforce with as little drag as possible.

 

http://aprperformanc...justable-wings/

 

Check out their CFD data. Gives 973 lbs of downforce at 160 mph for an 18 degree angle of attack. I was at the SEMA show and I swear half the aftermarket wings on cars there was the APR GTC500.

 

As for brake cooling, if your calipers turned brown, it is because of too much heat, so it means you need more brake cooling. Hawk pads are full race pads and they have very high friction coefficient. Other pads with less friction will brake slower and not generate as much heat. But I have never tried Gloc pads.

 

I have been using a COBB on my 2009, and no timing being pulled even with 91 octane. Perhaps that would help your more modern car.



#8 GotGTR?

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 12:19 PM

I would say your friends don't know what they are talking about in terms of wings. Just check out their aero data in terms of lift over drag. The APR wing is actually designed as a real wing unlike virtually all other wings which are just for decor. aka looks like a wing, but not really producing good downforce with as little drag as possible.

 

http://aprperformanc...justable-wings/

 

Check out their CFD data. Gives 973 lbs of downforce at 160 mph for an 18 degree angle of attack. I was at the SEMA show and I swear half the aftermarket wings on cars there was the APR GTC500.

 

As for brake cooling, if your calipers turned brown, it is because of too much heat, so it means you need more brake cooling. Hawk pads are full race pads and they have very high friction coefficient. Other pads with less friction will brake slower and not generate as much heat. But I have never tried Gloc pads.

 

I have been using a COBB on my 2009, and no timing being pulled even with 91 octane. Perhaps that would help your more modern car.

 

I have an opportunity to buy one for $1000 used. Do you think that seems about right? 

 

Solid point about the DTC70's.  I just haven't had any issue with the Gloc's doing the same and they brake just as well. 

 

Yeah, I may have to consider getting a tune. That has been recommended too. 



#9 descartesfool

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 10:11 AM

I think $1000 for the APR is about right. I bought mine used several years ago for just a bit less than that. A wing will certainly slow you down in the straights as it adds drag, but that is more than made up by the downforce and extra speed in the corners. It also makes you brake faster due to more grip.



#10 Danny_Incurve

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 10:23 AM

I had AP for the longest time and was extremely happy with them. They finally needed to be replaced after a long life but AP (as others have said they do offer just the replacement rings) is currently backlogged for like 6+ months so I went with the Alcons. I am honestly not as happy with them and had issues with them since first installing them causing vibration only when braking even after multiple resurfaces, two different brand new compounds, and following their bedding instructions to a tee. When I contacted them about it, they gave me the runaround for a month then basically told me I was SOL which on their customer service alone I would never purchase them again. Hopefully you have a better experience as AP so it seems is impossible to get right now. 



#11 R35Power

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 04:51 PM

AP Racing all the way.


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#12 Celdalby

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 01:16 PM

Good info, thanks.  I went Alcon.  We'll see how they go.



#13 Nominal266

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Posted 07 May 2020 - 08:54 AM

Bump, about 3 weeks away from installing Alcon rotos and mx72 pads on all four for an HPDE. Fingers crossed they don't have issues.

Any others out there with some insight?

#14 Gtrgolf

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Posted 24 July 2020 - 02:22 PM

I had to Alcon rotors put on my GTR front and back I drive my vehicle only on the weekends at the golf course to the supermarket and back started getting severe vibration , the shop contacted Alcon pretty much gave me the run-around said I was not driving the vehicle properly or braking properly , referring to the manufacturer Alcon.

#15 wadejg

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Posted 02 June 2021 - 06:58 PM

Bump it. So how did some of you guys like the Alcons for street and track? Seems like the alcons dont like street pads perhaps? Im about to get some track suitable rotors for my 2014.

Thanks,
Justin
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#16 Nominal266

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Posted 03 June 2021 - 12:35 AM

I went with Alcon and MX72. 3 track days in, no issues so far. Self assembly (rotor to hat), installation, and bedding. I think proper installation is key here. Also proper use in general. This includes:
- Inital bedding
- proper warm up procedures
- re-bedding as appropriate
- not using hand brake after hot laps
- not washing car and letting hard rust develop for too long.

No vibration once the rotor is up to temp. I think some users may be off put or surprised by the new sensations that slotted rotors may have. It will feel a tad different.

That being said, I also spoke with Alcon on the matter and they mentioned that the metallurgy and cooling veins changed in recent years (2015ish?). Maybe the issues experienced were with the older versions?

I am happy with them and no regrets. However, if the extra few $ for peace of mind with AP/Stillen is important to you, then go for it!


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