14 replies to this topic

[majj35]

Hey guys, been talking to a local GTR shop/experts over here about my next upgrades that I'm saving for ..let's say in 3 months. I'm currently fbo, with gas over here 95 ron probably hitting 540whp/wtq.. on back in US got 603/604 on 93 , and 646/661 on e85.

 

my most concern is blowing my clutch/gears/trans/rods.. these costly things. So i barely abuse the car, and never launch. I want to start enjoying it. The shop gave me an estimate on following upgrades and wanted to consult with you guys if the parts/costs are reasonable? as well as must have/ or too overkill parts.

 

Shop gave me 2 options: with Alpha 9 turbos or just stock (obv due to cost im leaning towards stock turbos for now and atleast protect the delicate parts.   

 

Non turbo option is:

- Pistons/rods/balance etc

-Clutch upgrade (ill ask again which package details and update here again)

-1st gear with a total cost of approx (inc labor)= $15K  ($21K with alpha 9 turbos).

 

(UPDATED PARTS POST #6)

 

is this reasonable?? ill find out which brands they plan to use .. just starting my research now. thank you Also approx how much +whp/wtq would that net to?

Edited by majj35, 24 February 2021 - 04:11 AM.

[droptopp]

It’s an interesting scenario and seems reasonable to me depending on your labor costs - assuming @ $125 an hour ? I ran around as an A9 for years and loved it. Only problem is whatever you put into the trans is the same as burning the cash. When, yes when and not if it blows up, you’ll start from scratch assuming the case is good. I think you should do it, I don’t think you even experience these cars before a turbo swap. I know you love your car now and it’s no comparison once it’s done. Good luck brotha.

[majj35]

It’s an interesting scenario and seems reasonable to me depending on your labor costs - assuming @ $125 an hour ? I ran around as an A9 for years and loved it. Only problem is whatever you put into the trans is the same as burning the cash. When, yes when and not if it blows up, you’ll start from scratch assuming the case is good. I think you should do it, I don’t think you even experience these cars before a turbo swap. I know you love your car now and it’s no comparison once it’s done. Good luck brotha.

 

thank you for the feedback bro. I'm still deciding if I should include the A9 turbos or not (all depends on funding). without the A9 turbos and just building the short block - clutches - 1st gear.. I may be able to pull the trigger in 3 months maybe sooner. The A9 I'd have to wait longer. 

 

If i just build the short block and clutches -- main goal here is to enjoy pushing the car without worrying on cruises, maybe start attending drag events ( but no track days, no tracks here yet). 

 

based on my goal above: 

-which clutch upgrade should i go with for safety (to abuse on pulls & minimal launches) 7 plate / 8 plate?

 

- approximately, lets say on pump 93, what's the estimated whp/wtq would I be looking at (from FBO to short block build + clutch/1st gr)

 

-also same as above approx whp/wtq if I did add the A9 turbos.

 

Thanks a lot bro.. 

Edited by majj35, 23 February 2021 - 11:44 PM.

[GT-R_NOVA]

I had a 2010 FBO for 6 years as a daily driver, many launches and trips to the drag strip and never had stock engine or transmission issues. If you are staying FBO you are wasting your money for peace of mind that you should already have IMHO.

Now if you are going to drop the engine for a turbo upgrade and you can afford to build the engine then great.....again some would say a waste of money as there are upgraded turbo cars running around for years now with the proper tune with zero issues...several shops even offer a 1 year warranty on stock engine/tranny with a basic turbo upgrade. The platform has come a long way and much has been learned since 2009.

If it were me I’m only spending money to do it once and do it right....or not at all.

[majj35]

I had a 2010 FBO for 6 years as a daily driver, many launches and trips to the drag strip and never had stock engine or transmission issues. If you are staying FBO you are wasting your money for peace of mind that you should already have IMHO.

Now if you are going to drop the engine for a turbo upgrade and you can afford to build the engine then great.....again some would say a waste of money as there are upgraded turbo cars running around for years now with the proper tune with zero issues...several shops even offer a 1 year warranty on stock engine/tranny with a basic turbo upgrade. The platform has come a long way and much has been learned since 2009.

If it were me I’m only spending money to do it once and do it right....or not at all.

 

i totally understand and agree with doing it all at once.. however, my main goal here is to enjoy power without worrying about bending rods or blowing my trans/clutch.. and doing that in one affordable shot. over here the cost of the following upgrades: converted to USD:

 

-Short block 3.8 + Fuel system  + 7 plate clutch kit mixed parts for 900hp + fluids + labor = $17,600

-Short block 3.8 + Fuel system  + 7 plate clutch kit mixed parts for 900hp + 1st gear + fluids + labor = $19,460

-Short block 3.8 + Alpha 9 turbo kit + Fuel system  + 7 plate clutch kit mixed parts for 900hp + 1st gear + fluids + labor = $40,000

 

big difference in budget 1 v option3 lol.

[majj35]

got back some info on the parts for my build. let me know if it looks okay .. overkill..missing stuff (they're very reputable in the middle east) we're just chatting so I've probably missed out on some tiny parts or work which they will 100% do

 

-JE pistons

-Manley i beam rods

-Connecting rods, thrust bearings

-Boost logic 625 studs

-Kelford type C Camshaft

-Oem Cam sprocket

-Oem oil pump

-Oem gasket kit

-Custom fuel system 2x Warlbro 550

-DMS Superstock 7 plat mix match kit (oem baskets)

-Oil Fluids Filters

 

-Stock turbos

-Not replacing 1st gear

 

 

these look okay for casual road driving, harsh accelerations, 1 launch every 6 months lol?

 

any idea on approx whp/wtq on 93 & e85?

[TeKiZeRo]

Are the Kelford cams something they are familiar and like?  It seems the GSC are popular option too that I would look into.  

[majj35]

Are the Kelford cams something they are familiar and like?  It seems the GSC are popular option too that I would look into.  

 

yeah the shop over here uses certain type of brands for GTR such as Kelford for the cams .. dodson/AMS/BL remaining most. Any concerns with the Typ c Kelford? I'm not familiar with the R35 aftermarket cams

[droptopp]

Realistically without turbos you won’t pick up any power. Changing the cams with the stock turbos and you may actually make less (locally buddy did). It’s because the turbos run out of steam so the extra 500+ rpm won’t gain you anything but heat which your motor won’t like anyways. Alpha 9 on 93 pump and you will probably be 800ish. Could always go the gateway route as well. They have the stock turbo/trans dialed in so not much to worry about. Remember the goal to switch the turbo is to make more power easier than you are now. I wouldn’t worry about building the motor if you are staying stock turbos in all honesty. You don’t need it. Plenty of guys with 100k+ miles and a conservative tune running mid 10’s for years. These cars are super reliable in that setup. I know your limited to 93, but you can pick up a barrel or 5 gallon jugs of ignite or 109 to add a layer against detonating. 5 gals per fill up when you are going out to hammer on it and it will help.

[majj35]

Realistically without turbos you won’t pick up any power. Changing the cams with the stock turbos and you may actually make less (locally buddy did). It’s because the turbos run out of steam so the extra 500+ rpm won’t gain you anything but heat which your motor won’t like anyways.

Alpha 9 on 93 pump and you will probably be 800ish.

Could always go the gateway route as well. They have the stock turbo/trans dialed in so not much to worry about.

Remember the goal to switch the turbo is to make more power easier than you are now.

I wouldn’t worry about building the motor if you are staying stock turbos in all honesty. You don’t need it. Plenty of guys with 100k+ miles and a conservative tune running mid 10’s for years.

These cars are super reliable in that setup.

I know your limited to 93, but you can pick up a barrel or 5 gallon jugs of ignite or 109 to add a layer against detonating. 5 gals per fill up when you are going out to hammer on it and it will help.

Hmm i see what you mean.. been doing a lot of thread readings as well on this and really stuck between the turbo / non turbo route.

So I’ll try to look at it as Safety>Power

But just to get an idea on power say on race gas (gas over here is 95 Ron - horrible)

What would be an approx MAX whp/wtq on the following:

1) Stock turbos, Short block, cams, clutch 7

2) A9 turbos, stock motor, clutch 7


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[droptopp]

Stock turbos are maxed out at 650 ish but throw a ton of heat at that range. Good for a glory run to make a list somewhere but terrible for reliability. Building the motor for a stock turbo is pretty much pointless. No matter how good the shop is, I seriously doubt they are better than the 4 guys building them now. Stock frame turbos can make 1500+. I made 1000 +/- as an A9 6+ years ago but that’s old turbo tech. They were on kill to make that and trapped 150-152 full weight on 20’s. They spool quick but not as fast as the new turbos out there, but in the street they are all you need. I walked cars for years lol. Stock frames trap into the 170s now. There were a ton of stock trans and motor A9’s, probably 10 to 1 compared to built motor setups. Cicio is pumping out the Gateway (C800) like hot cakes. I’ve said every chance I get, the bang for the buck on these cars is a turbo swap with the minimal supporting mods. There are a ton of headaches that come along with full builds. Some big, some small but if you can’t use the car does it matter? That would put you into a stock frame turbo and tune it around the trans. I don’t think there is a better setup now than the gateways with a warranty. Nobody else stands behind their setups like that. Boost by gear is the name if the game. Can drive it around wastegate 99% of time and when you push it can make 900+ with less heat than 600 on the stick turbos. You should have no issue being a 9 second car with a totally stock trans and engine and be reliable. Only need to worry about a Tesla Plaid or a good rider on a V4. Save the money for down the road. You’ve been around for a long time and are meticulous. At some point you know you’re going to go to 1300+ lol just a matter of when.

[droptopp]

Sorry to be clear : 1) 620/620 2) 800+ / 620

[Bit_Pirate]

...Only problem is whatever you put into the trans is the same as burning the cash. ...

I truly don't understand this statement. I know you have said it a few times, but if you buy billet baskets and 8/9 plate clutches and you upgrade the gearset etc later, those parts are 100% reusable. You speak as though it is fact that anything you put in there will be destroyed. There are 100's of "FBO" trans builds running around with clutches and baskets which have never broken anything, including the stock weak gears on stock or small turbos (nismos and gateways for example) and those are perfectly usable parts ( as are the clips etc which are replaced on the FBO trans builds). Seems to me its smart to buy those parts as insurance on a FBO lower torque build, you may never need to upgrade to a 1k or better later.
 

[droptopp]

EDIT - oops I forgot his goal was 800hp and not 1000. I see alpha 9 and I have trans flash backs hhahaha When I blew my Stage 2 only thing I reused was my case for the One K - burned $6,995+ labor like I never spent it. Carry on, do not mind my rambling - OP you will be fine as I said tuning around stock trans or upgraded clutches.

Edited by droptopp, 26 February 2021 - 12:06 PM.

[majj35]

Sorry to be clear : 1) 620/620 2) 800+ / 620

appreciate the details from the previous post.. it's much more clear to me now and especially your answer to this post (power difference 1,2). 

 

Because I was stuck between going with building short block, clutches & Keep stock turbos ORRR .. the other way around. Upgrade turbos and clutches, keep stock motor. 

 

As you know.. just looking for more power as close as possible to 1000hp crank to enjoy without breaking any OEM parts. Won't be competing yet so I won't be abusing the car as it should..until I can afford a proper build in the future.

 

From you're answer.. I'd want to go with option (2) since it would get me to 800+whp.. however i've read many posts, (as well as my tuners suggestions) that around 700whp+ I'm risking bending rods. isn't that true?