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Whiteline vs Eibach Sway Bars.


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#1 aroonkl

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Posted 12 March 2021 - 11:38 AM

Which one is stiffer? Do they show their rate of spring?

 

Current: Car is for street driving.

Sway bar.  Rear Eibach @stiffest setting. Front 2013 stock.

Tires. R888R 285Front, 325Rear

Suspension. Penske Coilover 2 ways. Setting 30-35% stiffness.

Spring rate 900 front, 550 rear

 

Since I replace stock suspension+Swift R to Penske coilover. The car is awesome, much better plant and great handling. Better turns, bumping, lanes change maneuver. Harshness is nearly the same as stock+ swift. 

 

Still Problem:

In the small radius turns, I could do light power oversteer comfortably. Car is fun. But in longer radius turn, I feel the car rolls too much. Should I change to stiffer sway bar? Do I need the front set also?

 

 

 



#2 AutoXGTR

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Posted 12 March 2021 - 04:06 PM

Normally for cars that oversteer you can stiffen the front swaybar relative to the rear, so a stiffer adjustable front bar and stock rear bar.

 

You have the opposite- stock front bar and stiffer rear bar which would help to get oversteer which is what you report.

 

Typically in the GTR owners replace both front and rear bars with adjustable bars of the same manufacturer because the stiffness ratings are relative to each set. So one bar set may be stiffer or softer but it's finding the combination between front and rear bars that allow you to dial in the desired amount of oversteer that works with your driving style.

 

So really any matching set should be a good place to start. Set the front bar to the softest setting in the adjustment and then rear bar to middle setting then drive and see where you are then adjust rear bar as needed.

 

How worn or old are your tires? How much power are you running?


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2009 GTR Premium Gun Metallic/ Black Leather #2361

#35 Street Modified Class Solo SCCA Hawaii Region 2020-21
2009-2021 Season Points and Runoff Champion(ASP 2009-12/SSP 2013/Street Modified 2014-19/2nd Points SM 2020, 2nd Runoff SM 2016-17)
2009-2014 Season Pax Overall 12th tied 2010/ 13th tied 2011/ 10th 2012/ 10th tied 2013/10th 2014


#3 aroonkl

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Posted 12 March 2021 - 05:58 PM

As now car has minor understeer in turn. I could do mild oversteer when added power from moderate throttle. I am ok with its balance. Just want to fix body roll on long radius of turn. Make car flatter in turn. Is it good idea or make handling worse?

 

Is Rear Whiteline sway bar stiffer than Eibach's? If it is decent stiffer, I would get Whiteline front also. Both might solve my problem.

 

I don't think I would add Eibach Front. I got Eibach Rear at max. If I add stiffer front while holding same for rear, it would introduce understeer back right?

 

Tires are 30% left but balance felt the same as new. Car is 1150whp but I only partial throttle in turn. 

Normally for cars that oversteer you can stiffen the front swaybar relative to the rear, so a stiffer adjustable front bar and stock rear bar.

 

You have the opposite- stock front bar and stiffer rear bar which would help to get oversteer which is what you report.

 

Typically in the GTR owners replace both front and rear bars with adjustable bars of the same manufacturer because the stiffness ratings are relative to each set. So one bar set may be stiffer or softer but it's finding the combination between front and rear bars that allow you to dial in the desired amount of oversteer that works with your driving style.

 

So really any matching set should be a good place to start. Set the front bar to the softest setting in the adjustment and then rear bar to middle setting then drive and see where you are then adjust rear bar as needed.

 

How worn or old are your tires? How much power are you running?


Edited by aroonkl, 12 March 2021 - 06:06 PM.


#4 AutoXGTR

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Posted 12 March 2021 - 07:41 PM

OK,

 

If you have Eibach rear bar there should be two holes on each end. If you are using the first hole on each side closer to the bend of the bar then you have the stiffest setting.

Adding a front bar will affect the balance of the suspension and handling.

 

Since you have coilovers that are two way adjustable then use your manual to adjust the rear shocks to dial out a little of the body roll-

https://cdn.shopify....df?v=1612187151

 

Adjusting for oversteer-

https://suspensionse...and-understeer/


4472829118_3e56d7a83c_m.jpg4419874927_166d46a46b_m.jpg

2009 GTR Premium Gun Metallic/ Black Leather #2361

#35 Street Modified Class Solo SCCA Hawaii Region 2020-21
2009-2021 Season Points and Runoff Champion(ASP 2009-12/SSP 2013/Street Modified 2014-19/2nd Points SM 2020, 2nd Runoff SM 2016-17)
2009-2014 Season Pax Overall 12th tied 2010/ 13th tied 2011/ 10th 2012/ 10th tied 2013/10th 2014


#5 hunter

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Posted 13 March 2021 - 08:56 AM

OK,

 

If you have Eibach rear bar there should be two holes on each end. If you are using the first hole on each side closer to the bend of the bar then you have the stiffest setting.

Adding a front bar will affect the balance of the suspension and handling.

 

Since you have coilovers that are two way adjustable then use your manual to adjust the rear shocks to dial out a little of the body roll-

https://cdn.shopify....df?v=1612187151

 

Adjusting for oversteer-

https://suspensionse...and-understeer/

Nice info.........almost too much for all but the experienced racer... One other option... DSC sport controller for stock suspension...


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#6 AutoXGTR

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Posted 13 March 2021 - 04:51 PM

Yes, although costly DSC Sport Controller is a good option and worth considering.

 

It is tough in that you are noticing body roll and want to reduce it yet not alter other suspension and handling characteristics in a negative way.

 

Truth is when you alter one thing you may get negative effects elsewhere. One thing you can alter is how your drive and what you can do to make the car behave the way you want.

 

I have lots of body roll captured on video and pictures using Swift sport springs and OEM shocks with adjustable front and rear Whiteline swaybars and aggressive alignment. Would be better not to have the body roll but the problem lies with the weight of the GTR. Therefore although a stiffer suspension would reduce roll it would also lead to other problems depending on how stiff you aim for. Adjustable suspension is of benefit as you can try settings to see what might work as a compromise.

 

see

https://www.roadandt...have-less-grip/


4472829118_3e56d7a83c_m.jpg4419874927_166d46a46b_m.jpg

2009 GTR Premium Gun Metallic/ Black Leather #2361

#35 Street Modified Class Solo SCCA Hawaii Region 2020-21
2009-2021 Season Points and Runoff Champion(ASP 2009-12/SSP 2013/Street Modified 2014-19/2nd Points SM 2020, 2nd Runoff SM 2016-17)
2009-2014 Season Pax Overall 12th tied 2010/ 13th tied 2011/ 10th 2012/ 10th tied 2013/10th 2014


#7 aroonkl

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Posted 15 March 2021 - 11:44 AM

For quick turn + turn under braking/accelerating, Rebound and Compression have good effect on resisting body roll.

But under long steady turn, I think Spring rate and Sway Bar do most part against the roll. 

I did 55%Front&45%rear against 35%F 30%R. Car is flatter on quick change of direction, less weight transfer between front-back. On long radius turn, pretty much same lean. Not that good. Car is harsher a bit. Much prefer 35%F 30%R on street driving.

 

Anyone know how stiff is Whiteline compared to Eibach set?



#8 AutoXGTR

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Posted 15 March 2021 - 02:44 PM

Without head to head testing there is no accurate way to say how much stiffer any swaybar is from OEM and from other aftermarket swaybars.

The diameter of the bar is a rough indicator, the thicker the bar the stiffer it usually is, hollow bars are lighter in weight and usually is found in a thicker rear bar vs the solid 16mm rear bar. The more holes the finer the adjustments possible and a combination of hole settings can be used such as with a 3 hole using the middle setting on one side and softest setting on the other side, adjustable links usually assist with fitment.

Rear OEM swaybar links are very thin and not stiff, under heavy track use they are known to fail, front OEM links are very short and stiff but with aftermarket bars adjustble front links help with fitment.

 

GTR OEM

Front bar  34mm  Estimated stiffness about 800-900 lbs/in.

Rear bar 14mm

 

 

Whiteline swaybars for GTR

https://www.z1motors...it-p-11175.html

Front bar 2-way adjustable 33mm

Rear bar 3-way adjustable 20mm, (earlier there was an 18mm rear bar with 3 holes but it is not available currently).

Full set comes with front and rear swaybar links, otherwise single bars don't include links

 

Eibach swaybars for GTR

https://eibach.com/u...-truck-suv.html

Front bar Tubular 2-way adjustable 35mm

Rear bar Tubular 5-way adjustable 16mm

 

For comparison Stillen set of swaybars

https://www.nissanra...justable-endli/

• 3-Way Adjustable Front Bar – 20-38% Stiffer,  Estimated stiffness 1100 lbs./in. or about 33% stiffer
• 5-Way Adjustable Rear Bar – 67-108% Stiffer
• Adjustable Sway-Bar End Links

 

 

Swift swaybars

Front bars is about 12% Stiffer in the front , 34 mm in diameter, weigh in at 14.6 lbs and are hollow.

Rear bar is a 3 way adjustable 16 mm diameter, 5.5 lb solid bar. Rates of adjustment are 0% , 13%, and 16% stiffer than stock.

 

Forged Performance bars  (no longer available for sale)

Front bar  38.3mm, estimated stiffness 1800 lbs./in. or 100% stiffer

Rear bar   24mm, (claimed 800% stiffer)

For info on Forged swaybars see post below from past


Edited by AutoXGTR, 16 March 2021 - 05:49 PM.

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2009 GTR Premium Gun Metallic/ Black Leather #2361

#35 Street Modified Class Solo SCCA Hawaii Region 2020-21
2009-2021 Season Points and Runoff Champion(ASP 2009-12/SSP 2013/Street Modified 2014-19/2nd Points SM 2020, 2nd Runoff SM 2016-17)
2009-2014 Season Pax Overall 12th tied 2010/ 13th tied 2011/ 10th 2012/ 10th tied 2013/10th 2014


#9 aroonkl

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Posted 16 March 2021 - 08:47 AM

:thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  AutoXGTR



#10 AutoXGTR

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Posted 16 March 2021 - 05:35 PM

I did find this comment in another GTR forum from a very knowledgable GTR driver (from March 2015)

 

Caveat, the only real way to know the rates of your bars is to measure them yourselves with a rig and spring tester/load cell, failing that have an actual number from a mfgr that you trust based on verified history of providing quality data. AFAIK the only mfgr who has provided numbers for their gtr bars is Eibach and they have their bars in the 1000lb/in range for the front.  ad up to 40 for the rear. They quote some numbers for stock bars as well, but at least from my testing for a DBA bar, they don't seem to add up.

 

FWIW, unless a mfgr is using an unusual material , based upon dimensions all of the available bars fall into a very similar  stiffness range. Their geometry is all the same, and their key metrics are all about the same (Length of arms, center section, diameter and thickness). This also means that most of the bars avaialbie are likely around the same stiffness of the eibach bars (Exception, forged). Wouldn't surprise me to find that some of them are all sourced from the same place as well smile.png The rub here is that several mfgrs quote "% stiffer over stock" numbers that just don't plan match the actual numbers based upon the eibach bars, or in turn Eibachs published stock numbers.

 

I've recently measured my on hand front bars ( DBA stock, Stillen and forged) and sacrificed their unblemished skin to get real thickness measurements.. All of them had center sections  around 33 11/16 (depending on where you figure the center ends) and their "Arms" and holes were in the same ball park as well around 8 to 11 for the physics and virtual arms. The difference was in diameter and thickness which  were 34mm/4.8mm stock,  35mm/4.9mm for stillen and 38.3mm/4.9mm for forged.

 

Not knowing the actual material used you can't really come up with a precise value for the bar,  but assuming similar materials and geometry you can come up with a relative weighting.

 

By math stock is in then 800-900lb/in range, stillen 1100 and forge 1600isn which translates to maximums over stock of  33% and  about 100% (In addition to being thicker, the forged holes/arms are shorter).

 

Similar things are found with all of them being *solid* bars with the stock bar being 14mm,  stillen 16mm and forge 24mm. modest increase for stillen and *LOTS* more for forge (claimed 8x). (in the 140-160 lb in range)

 

What I've found to date is that the forge rear bar is a tremendous tool for balancing the car since it offers such a dramatic change over stock and the competition. Whereas the other bars where such a small increase to almost not be useful.

 

Conversely on the front most of the bars provide a decent enough increase to allow balancing the car. The forge bars softest setting is much stiffer then the stiffest setting on the stillen bar and as such it isn't as useful in achieving balance unless you are stick with much softer then usual front spring package or are trying to add lots of roll resistance while maintain bump compliance. (Or perhaps increased your rear rates *a lot* to account for aero).

 

If you serious about the handling of your car and want the best tools in your bin to do so, I'd recommend a set of forged bars as well as a set of any of the other 35mm/16mm bars to go with it and mix and match to find the balance you like.

 

Bonus info for those of you that read along this far, for a DBA the front swaybar motion ratio is 0.53F and 0.927R as measured by displacement.


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2009 GTR Premium Gun Metallic/ Black Leather #2361

#35 Street Modified Class Solo SCCA Hawaii Region 2020-21
2009-2021 Season Points and Runoff Champion(ASP 2009-12/SSP 2013/Street Modified 2014-19/2nd Points SM 2020, 2nd Runoff SM 2016-17)
2009-2014 Season Pax Overall 12th tied 2010/ 13th tied 2011/ 10th 2012/ 10th tied 2013/10th 2014


#11 aroonkl

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Posted 26 March 2021 - 09:55 PM

I ordered a set of Whiteline sway bar Front & Rear. Its rear is beefier than Eibach. I kept front stock bar to try out rear only to feel the different. By quick ride on normal road,even at middle setting Whiteline setting is still stiffer than Eibach full stiff.

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#12 White_turbo

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Posted 19 April 2021 - 06:39 PM

Looks like one is a 20mm the other is 16mmm so not sure this is a direct comparison?

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#13 aroonkl

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Posted 21 April 2021 - 12:15 AM

?? Not sure if I understand your question. Silver one is Whiteline. Red is Eibach. Whiteline is bigger and stiffer.

Looks like one is a 20mm the other is 16mmm so not sure this is a direct comparison?



#14 White_turbo

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Posted 22 April 2021 - 03:10 PM

What I am saying was the whiteline is 20mm and the Eibach is 16mm so it is expected that the whiteline is bigger and beefier. 😅

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