[TheSnail]

I've been researching for days, on different FMIC sett ups and seek opinions.

I'm building a road course (tight and technical) car which needs to have as instant turbo response as possible. From the experience of one of my previous cars, bigger isn't always better. 18yrs ago I put together a gigantic (the entire front end) custom Spearco Bar n Plate intercooler on my RB26 powered 240 (did the first one in the US). The intercooler was rated at 1200, and the car was pushing 500whp. Pretty much the only noticeable thing going with a massive IC did for me was introduce more turbo lag. So I stand by my bigger isn't always better.

I keep see people (About 50% of feedback) saying that the "Street" FMIC don't do anything and are a waste of money. Saying it does nothing over the stock intercoolers. Instead, go with the biggest "Race" intercooler. Been there, done that. Don't want the added turbo lag, if I plan to run half the intercoolers rated HP. Its not the money, I'd rather spend 5K on a smaller volume appropriately sized for the HP, efficient intercooler rather than a 4K massive "race" intercooler with 3" piping and turbo lag.

On the GTR (Nismo engine), I'm planning to run the stock GT3 Nismo turbos, Akrapovic Evolution, some 3" intakes, downpipes, fuel and a tune. Simple build with the ball park goal of 650-700whp on 93 with Quicker than stock spool.

I thought the choice was going to be easy. I was just going to go with an AMS "Street" FMIC with stock IC piping. However about half of people say it does absolutely nothing, and half say it does something. Does it not reduce IATs even 10deg F compared to stock? I understand it's the internet, but I hadn't seen back to back numbers, comparing the "Street" FMIC IATs to a Stock FMIC IATs to say one way or another.

I did come across an HKS R-Type FMIC last night, which looks like exactly what I'm looking for. Has a claimed "same turbo response" and reduces temps by "20C". Does anyone running this kit, care to share their thoughts? Also, it has a carbon fiber duct/shroud and HKS notes "Does not fit 2011". Yet there was a 2012 FS on here with the kit and shroud. The bigger question is, does anyone know if HKS R-Type Carbon fiber Duct/Shroud fits the 2017+?

The HKS kit looks nice, but looks old tech to me. What do I know though. Anyone with experience in these lower volume FMICs have any comments? Is the AMS or ETS "street" FMIC's as good or better than the HKS R-type? Is the turbo response using the AMS or ETS street FMIC the same as stock, as HKS claims their R-type is?

Thanks, Snail

 

[L.L.]

There are in-depth discussions that should be easily referenced using search or Google to search this site. The discussion I'm referencing from memory included detailed IAT log data comparisons and that's likely what some folks recall when they say skip the street units for the race IC.

I've run upgraded ICs (both street and race) in conjunction with upgraded turbos so I haven't been able to say for certain any difference in response is attributed to the IC upgrade alone. I will add, at a recent track event in April, another local owner running a street unit told me his IATs were above 150F with an ambient temp of 75F. The temps in my logs were in the 110-120 range all day during actual passes and we weren't exactly taking it easy with 15+ passes each in about 2 hours time between drag and roll racing and some hot lapping. He's running 58mm turbos and I'm running 55mm turbos for reference. He chose to upgraded to a race unit after that experience.

Ideally you'll want both the response and sufficient cooling but, if that doesn't exist, you'll need to weigh the risks of the higher IATs in exchange for the better perceived response.

 

[TheSnail]

There are in-depth discussions that should be easily referenced using search or Google to search this site. The discussion I'm referencing from memory included detailed IAT log data comparisons and that's likely what some folks recall when they say skip the street units for the race IC.

I've run upgraded ICs (both street and race) in conjunction with upgraded turbos so I haven't been able to say for certain any difference in response is attributed to the IC upgrade alone. I will add, at a recent track event in April, another local owner running a street unit told me his IATs were above 150F with an ambient temp of 75F. The temps in my logs were in the 110-120 range all day during actual passes and we weren't exactly taking it easy with 15+ passes each in about 2 hours time between drag and roll racing and some hot lapping. He's running 58mm turbos and I'm running 55mm turbos for reference. He chose to upgraded to a race unit after that experience.

Ideally you'll want both the response and sufficient cooling but, if that doesn't exist, you'll need to weigh the risks of the higher IATs in exchange for the better perceived response.

Thanks for the response L.L.

I believe I saw that thread. I know I've found several relevant threads with you in it. It is a balance between Higher IATs and Longer dwell time before the system pressurizes. Just basic physics on more volume = more time to pressurize. Though maybe by design or core efficiency, you can still get slightly more volume, but same response.

The AMS street says it has 75% more flow area than stock. I assume that does not mean 75% more volume, but rather internal surface area. From what I've gathered, the HKS R-type has a lot more frontal surface area, but the depth and volume is not much greater than stock. It looks like a large/tall race intercooler, but it is shallow. The AMS race is similar in frontal size but is a 4.5" (Deep Core). HKS says theirs is a "Large intercooler with thin core" Theirs measures 65mm deep which is 2.5". So a full 2" less than the AMS Race. That's why they are able to retain the same response.

Thinking about it more, I'm starting to believe that the HKS R-type design suits my needs perfectly. I'll continue to do research/comparisons before I buy in a month or two, but the HKS is the front runner right now.

HKS R-Type vs Stock (Roughly the same depth of 2.5")

 

[Tay]

I've been researching for days, on different FMIC sett ups and seek opinions.

I'm building a road course (tight and technical) car which needs to have as instant turbo response as possible. From the experience of one of my previous cars, bigger isn't always better. 18yrs ago I put together a gigantic (the entire front end) custom Spearco Bar n Plate intercooler on my RB26 powered 240 (did the first one in the US). The intercooler was rated at 1200, and the car was pushing 500whp. Pretty much the only noticeable thing going with a massive IC did for me was introduce more turbo lag. So I stand by my bigger isn't always better.

View attachment 403525

View attachment 403526

I keep see people (About 50% of feedback) saying that the "Street" FMIC don't do anything and are a waste of money. Saying it does nothing over the stock intercoolers. Instead, go with the biggest "Race" intercooler. Been there, done that. Don't want the added turbo lag, if I plan to run half the intercoolers rated HP. Its not the money, I'd rather spend 5K on a smaller volume appropriately sized for the HP, efficient intercooler rather than a 4K massive "race" intercooler with 3" piping and turbo lag.

On the GTR (Nismo engine), I'm planning to run the stock GT3 Nismo turbos, Akrapovic Evolution, some 3" intakes, downpipes, fuel and a tune. Simple build with the ball park goal of 650-700whp on 93 with Quicker than stock spool.

I thought the choice was going to be easy. I was just going to go with an AMS "Street" FMIC with stock IC piping. However about half of people say it does absolutely nothing, and half say it does something. Does it not reduce IATs even 10deg F compared to stock? I understand it's the internet, but I hadn't seen back to back numbers, comparing the "Street" FMIC IATs to a Stock FMIC IATs to say one way or another.

I did come across an HKS R-Type FMIC last night, which looks like exactly what I'm looking for. Has a claimed "same turbo response" and reduces temps by "20C". Does anyone running this kit, care to share their thoughts? Also, it has a carbon fiber duct/shroud and HKS notes "Does not fit 2011". Yet there was a 2012 FS on here with the kit and shroud. The bigger question is, does anyone know if HKS R-Type Carbon fiber Duct/Shroud fits the 2017+?

The HKS kit looks nice, but looks old tech to me. What do I know though. Anyone with experience in these lower volume FMICs have any comments? Is the AMS or ETS "street" FMIC's as good or better than the HKS R-type? Is the turbo response using the AMS or ETS street FMIC the same as stock, as HKS claims their R-type is?

Thanks, Snail

Try reaching out to BSE Performance and Forged Performance. Bob at BSE tracks his car competitively and I know Forged is big on road racing.

My friend I used to track with had an FBO E85 build with stock turbos and ran the Litchfield Race intercooler and his car ripped. Litchfield is big into road racing and Nurburgring builds: Litchfield GT-R Race Intercooler | Litchfield Motors

 

[droptopp]

If I recall multiple shops did quite a bit of testing back in the day.

I’m flying now and Internet is slow, but should be something on here or Heritage. Just search via Google.

Doug’s review (RIP buddy)

Intercooler Testing Results / Comparison - Power and Drivetrain

Intercooler Testing Results / Comparison - posted in Power and Drivetrain: Lets have a thread where people post their intercooler testing results in one place! Ours, the Driven Innovations x WGP Race Intercooler maintains almost ambient IAT throughout pulls, even well above 1000whp... I...

www.gtrheritage.com

Buachur

Buschur Racing FMIC kits completed. - Build Threads

Page 1 of 2 - Buschur Racing FMIC kits completed. - posted in Build Threads: We finally have our completed kits finished. We built our first FMIC for Nicks car a few months back. Stock turbos on that car, E85, two fairly heavy race seats and the other things we offer hes gone 10.2 at a best...

www.gtrheritage.com

Much more power than you are looking to make, but good data.

ETS Super Race Intercooler Tested on TSM ELITE Plus - R35 GT-R

Page 1 of 2 - ETS Super Race Intercooler Tested on TSM ELITE Plus - posted in R35 GT-R: I wanted to post some recent results up form our TSM ELITE Plus in house development car. When we first built the car we decided to try our hand at some intercooler development. We used bell cores and built...

www.gtrheritage.com

 

[TheSnail]

Thanks gentleman for the responses! Let me review/read the threads and links, then comment afterwards.

 

[TheSnail]

After another 4hrs of researching intercoolers, I now think I'm going to go with an ETS Street Intercooler. They use the most top of the line BELL cores from what I read. They have most heat transfer surface area then all others. For someone like me, that will only run the stock Nismo turbos at around 650whp, I think the ETS street intercooler is a perfect fit. I'll also keep the stock IC pipes to keep velocity up for throttle response.

 

[droptopp]

I have very limited “stock” use but ran STM’s with Garrett cores at various levels of HP. Not sure if they have them in stock.

I now run ETS Super race and very impressed.

Can always shoot the experts an email and see what they have to say about street vs race and discuss the pluses and minuses.

Also, hopefully some of the auto cross / track guys chime in.

Good luck.

 

[TheSnail]

I have very limited “stock” use but ran STM’s with Garrett cores at various levels of HP. Not sure if they have them in stock.

I now run ETS Super race and very impressed.

Can always shoot the experts an email and see what they have to say about street vs race and discuss the pluses and minuses.

Also, hopefully some of the auto cross / track guys chime in.

Good luck.

Thank you Droptopp. From what I've gathered, ETS uses the latest tech, highest quality cores. I did not consider them at first, but it looks like they are one of the best, if not the best. Like you said, I'd love to get some feedback from the autocross / track guys.

 

[droptopp]

Their new fridge intercooler is as good as it gets !!!

 

[240Z TwinTurbo]

Not sure of the GT3 Nismo turbo specs, but thinking its probably a stretch goal to reach [email protected] on 93 pump. Haven't seen any of the USA companies making an intercooler for what you want so neither the street core or race core fits you goals. Based on your power goals you want a core that flows about 1200cfm at standard pressure drop (~1psi) with as much surface area as you can get. For 1200cfm you can get away with a 3.5" thick core, which will be more efficient vs a 4.5" core because it will more easily allow you to remove heat due to the increased flow in the direction of the core thickness. Thicker cores are harder for air to flow through so harder to remove heat from the core. Piping should be kept at stock size, but replaced with all mandrel bent. Tank volume should be kept at a minimum so just look at F1 intercooler setups to understand what I mean.

Not sure about the HKS cores and their flow specs, but they keep the core thickness down and increase the overall surface area for increased efficiency. This should at least give you an idea for the approach that you will want to take when trying to find a suitable core based on your requirements.

 

[Wicked]

JMHO, I'd go with ethanol for a quicker spool and a race intercooler.