CTS-V murdered by GTR..... Half Mile!
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Skyliner, on 21 October 2011 - 03:30 PM, said:
A proper race requires that we must know how much horsepower each car outputs, before it happens.
What happen it has to be similar Hp to race? This is not proper race, you don't know how much HP each car outputs before the race.
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Having owned both, I can tell you that it really is no contest.
Stock 2009-2011 will trap 5mph +, and 8 tenths or so on a stock CTSV.
Stock 2012? 8+ and well over 1 second.
That's real world.
Start modifying, and it's even more to the GTR's advantage, mod per mod.
Consistency goes in the GTR's favor, as well as fit and finish, driving feel, etc. Only thing in the V's favor is comfort, and of course price. You also have to remember that one is a sports car, and the other a sedan.
Stock 2009-2011 will trap 5mph +, and 8 tenths or so on a stock CTSV.
Stock 2012? 8+ and well over 1 second.
That's real world.
Start modifying, and it's even more to the GTR's advantage, mod per mod.
Consistency goes in the GTR's favor, as well as fit and finish, driving feel, etc. Only thing in the V's favor is comfort, and of course price. You also have to remember that one is a sports car, and the other a sedan.
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I currently have both too and have gone to the track many times over the past 3 years. I think your differentials are little skewed. Most stock CTS-V's trap between 115-118mph (a handful as high as 120mph in -DA). I don't see too many bone stock '09 GT-Rs trapping 5+mph higher (between 120-123mph). The GT-R is such a consistent car because of the the transmission and the AWD. CTS-V's are all over the place because of the choices in transmission and the RWD. I also think the DA has a greater impact on the CTS-V.
Tom
I never said this is a proper race.... It is not a race. It's more like a rape! LOL
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My CTS-V ran 12.3 @ 114. That was in 1800 DA, icing the intercooler, everything I could do to hit a good pass. After the first run, and without ice, traps were 113.
Same track, same DA, BOTH of my stock 2010 GTR's were hitting 119-120. At least 5 mph.
Maybe it's true that DA affects the V more, I really can't say, but to say stock V's usually trap 115-118 is IMHO not true. Only with the help of some really good DA. And if we go by that, I can point to a stock 2010 GTR that has hit 123. Again, 5+ MPH.
I am not trying to bash the V here, just trying to be real. If you don't believe the results, I gladly invite any BONE STOCK V to meet me at PBIR, so we can see the results 1st hand. we'll run both lanes, and compare traps only, same day, same lane. I'l even throw it in auto mode, LC2 with no tricks. If I am proven wrong, I will gladly admit it.
Friday night, I was at PBIR with 4 GTR's and a member of the CTS-V forums in his tune and pully sedan on DR's. The night was crappy, the worst traction ever, but even without the traction issue, I was pulling him in my BONE STOCK 2010 GTR. You don't even want to know by how much. And BTW, he has one of the fastest, if not the fastest tune and pully V ...
Again not to be hating, I bought a V, so I had to like it at least a little. It is a ballsy sedan. Just saying it like I see it ..
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I know you are not hating on the V. I also know you posted in the Caddy forums...so I am kind of surprised that you are being "selective" in your comments. The attached list contains both modded and stock CTS-V 1/4 mile times. This isn't a complete list, just a sample based on members who asked to be added to the list (including your posted run). If you go to dragtimes there are also some more 1/4 miles times for the CTS-V. Unless you are suggesting some of those cars are not stock..
Tom
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I'd also like to know this. Those wheels look sick!
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Yeah, I did just go to the V forums and look at that list. I also just read a post where a member hit 117 in -600 DA.
I still stand by my previous statement. If one looks at the list without a critical eye and experience, one might think the two cars are closer. But, I do not. I believe my current 2010 will hit 122, or close to it in -600 DA, a 5 mph difference over the poster I just mentioned. Also, trap speeds at different tracks with different condiitions and different calibrations, etc will differ. Trap speeds are not the end all, unless it is a same day, same lane, same approx time comparison. Then, and only then, do they represent the best data.
What I am basing most of my conclusion on is how both of my cars did on the same track in the same DA. That is the best data I have so far, and I see a 5 mph difference. I have to assume, that across the board, outliers excluded, that that is the norm. This comparison was done keeping in mind lane differences, run averages, etc. And my Stock V posted a good stock Dynojet 470 + whp.
To back up my original position, I was pulling on LitiGator, also on that list, in my bone stock 2010. Ask him if U like..
Re-reading my posts, I may have come off a bit strong, but I am just saying it like I see it. No need to sugar coat it.
I would like to meet a stock V at the track, for some friendly runs to see what the true difference is. I of course believe that I am correct, and until proven otherwise, I will continue along that train of thought..
I still stand by my previous statement. If one looks at the list without a critical eye and experience, one might think the two cars are closer. But, I do not. I believe my current 2010 will hit 122, or close to it in -600 DA, a 5 mph difference over the poster I just mentioned. Also, trap speeds at different tracks with different condiitions and different calibrations, etc will differ. Trap speeds are not the end all, unless it is a same day, same lane, same approx time comparison. Then, and only then, do they represent the best data.
What I am basing most of my conclusion on is how both of my cars did on the same track in the same DA. That is the best data I have so far, and I see a 5 mph difference. I have to assume, that across the board, outliers excluded, that that is the norm. This comparison was done keeping in mind lane differences, run averages, etc. And my Stock V posted a good stock Dynojet 470 + whp.
To back up my original position, I was pulling on LitiGator, also on that list, in my bone stock 2010. Ask him if U like..
Re-reading my posts, I may have come off a bit strong, but I am just saying it like I see it. No need to sugar coat it.
I would like to meet a stock V at the track, for some friendly runs to see what the true difference is. I of course believe that I am correct, and until proven otherwise, I will continue along that train of thought..
I agree with sleepdoc. A friend took his cts-v to one track then sold it. It didn't do too well in the 2200 DA. I also see about 5 mph difference, same track same lane, same time. I have all my runs in a spreadsheet with vbox and track times and mph. The right lane in Orlando is 5 mph slower than vbox and 2-3 mph slower than left lane for months. It seems all the supercharged vehicles suffer badly with high DA. The Shelby and zr1 comes into mind.
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My stock 6mt CTS-V trapped 119mph stock in -500 DA. I actually slightly pulled on a stock '09 GTR from a 50 roll.
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That is all great...maybe I am a little dense and inexperienced reading timeslips (I guess I haven't figured it out in the 10+ years going to the strip) but there are 4 runs above showing trap speeds of 118+mph for bone stock CTS-Vs and another 119+mph on dragtimes. Sorry, a stock '09-'11 GT-R is not going to trap 123+mph. And yes, trap speed is a good indication of how a car performs on a roll-on. Just because you had a fast car...doesn't make it ok to be condescending...
Tom
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I have NEVER seen a stock V trap over 114 at PBIR. EVER.
9 out of 10 stock 09-11 GT-R's trap 119.
The V is slower than it should be. I think it's from torque management kicking in AND the intake temps being to high because people shut the cars off instead of letting them run. Its a water to air inter-cooler after all isn't it?
I love the V's but I would rather have an ISF or M3 over one even if they are slower.
9 out of 10 stock 09-11 GT-R's trap 119.
The V is slower than it should be. I think it's from torque management kicking in AND the intake temps being to high because people shut the cars off instead of letting them run. Its a water to air inter-cooler after all isn't it?
I love the V's but I would rather have an ISF or M3 over one even if they are slower.
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Not being condescending at all. Just saying it like I see it. Seem as though you are being a bit passive-aggressive though .. Don't need to get all pissy
I am not trying to discredit you or your ability to read a slip, but you must take into consideration the fact that I have seen a ridiculous number of 1/4 mile passes in a GTR. I know how this car runs down a track, how it responds to DA, and how it stacks up to a lot of other vehicles in the same local conditions. I also have the ability to critically think an analyze data.
No stock 2010 has ever trapped 123 ? Gigaboost trapped 123 in his stock GTR at PBIR. How about that ? I have been around here a long time, and I know what is going on. Don't try to call me out, O.K? Now, do I believe he really trapped 123? Not really. I think the trap was off. But I bet a stock V would have hit 118 in that lane. A 5 mph difference.
I know about trap speed and roll on. And I believe that to be a good indicator as well, all things being equal. And all things are equal on the same day, same lane. Did I ever bring up roll on anyway?
These days, I don't always believe the trap speed that is shown on a slip. Sometimes the traps are off ( ET is not). That's why I now always say " same lane, same day".
And this has nothing to do with my "fast car". Don't bring that into it. I am refering mostly to my current 2010, leaving my old car pretty much out of the discussion.
Why don't we just agree to disagree for the time being. Let's get a local and stock V down here to do some fun runs, like I described earlier, both lanes, average out some runs, and prove what's up?
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