yeah i need to get off my ass and send mine to get done

 

Do you plan on putting the car back on the dyno for a post intake port assessment?

 

Yes, I am also installing the Curt Brown ported '13 turbo inlets today and will stick the car on the dyno this week for a before/after.

 

This is awesome! In for results.

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Would love to see a before and after dyno of just the ported inlets

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I want to finish updating the pinning of the manifold. Any time you port match intake halves or intake-head you should consider pinning the manifold so you have consistent alignment for a seamless transition. I went to Lowes and purchased a set of 1/8" x 3/4" Tension Pins for $0.80 and they have an OD of ~0.135, which is a 0.010" interference fit.

Bolt the upper and lower manifold halves together with the gasket in the middle and secure two bolts on either end, but don't tighten. Flip the manifold over so you can see the inlet tubes and alignment of the gasket as well as manifold halves. Move everything around until you have perfect alignment and then tighten the bolts to secure alignment. I used a 1/8" drill and drilled two holes on either end in a suitable spot, but be careful on the back of the manifold and make sure you drill in a place that will pass through the gasket. Once drilled, unbolt the manifold halves and then hand champher the holes on the bottom half of the manifold. I then used a pair of pliers to insert the tension pin as shown below.

I then place the gasket on a flat piece of wood and then sandwiched the gasket with another piece of wood so that only one edge was exposed on the top. I then used a 5/32" drill to enlarge the 1/8" hole in the gasket. Do this for both ends of the gasket where you drilled the hole. I then drilled the upper manifold with a 5/32" drill to provide sufficient clearance for the tension pin. I then hand chamfered the holes and cleaned up the manifold.

 

I also had a chance to install the ported inlets today and it was not too bad, but I will provide my input to the already documented process. Here is a good DIY link and what I used as a guideline...
http://www.gtrlife.c...e-installation/

My thoughts on passenger side:
- remove plastic front inner fender liner
- You will gain access to the lower nut on the turbo inlet, but don't need to remove from here
- Unbolt the power steering pump (one 12mm bolt on top and one 14mm bolt on bottom (place socket through hole on pulley)) and this will give you access to both the upper and lower nut of the turbo inlet
- using a 3" 12mm deep socket and 12" extension you can access both the top and bottom nut from inside the engine bay
- I used the lower access point to install the lower nut, but used the socket and extension to tighten

My thoughts on Driver's Side:
- People said this side would be hard, but getting access to the nuts is cake
- move over the expansion tank and secure with zip ties
- remove the upper nut with 3" deep socket with 12" extension and 3" extension with socket running between block and AC (picture below)
- remove front inner fender
- lower nut can be removed with 12mm wrench
- I spent a lot of time removing the damn vacuum line from the compressor housing, which should have been a 3 minute effort. For older cars this may give you fits
- Once I got the two vacuum lines removed I could not get the intake out so I pulled out as much as I could and then removed the two 10mm bolts that secure the boost solenoid
- using a 3" 10mm deep socket connected to universal joint connected to 12" extension I removed the metal PCV tube

Here is the trick I use when trying to get a nut to stay in a socket and this will serve you well when trying to install the upper nuts. Get some painters tape and cut into small strips and place the sticky side on the inside of the socket and then wrap around the edge. You DO NOT want the sticky side towards the nut. This creates an interference fit for the nut and it will stay in the socket as you get the nut installed.

One last recommendation...get a telescoping mirror like the one below so you can help align your 12mm socket on the top nut.

 

I had a chance to dyno the car this evening and below are the results. Overall I am very happy with the results. This tune essentially is the same map I ran during the last dyno run and I did not change intake cam or ignition timing.

Unfortunately I was unable to accurately tune to revise spool AFR so it was running about 1.0 AFR rich from 3200rpm to 4200rpm. I will get this squared away on the street and hopefully it will improve performance. This was due to the fact I was hitting a spot on the map that I was not expecting.

Finally, here are the results

I am excited about the results and this will serve as a good foundation for the intercooler and turbo upgrade coming next.

 

so 20whp gain from both inlets and manifold?

 

Great inlet install tips and good data. I'm guessing most of your gains where due to the inlets based on the ported intake dyno data sponaugle posted in his thread. Did you drive it between the intake and inlets?

 

It is hard to say what mod provided what gain. What I have seen posted is that a Curt Brown ported intake gains 25hp and I have seen his intake make 2hp. I consistently see that 2012+ turbo inlets provide up to 25hp and additional porting another 12hp. In my opinion and also based on the results from Sponaugle, it will likely be difficult to reach the full potential of these mods when running the stock turbochargers, but without data it is impossible to say what mod provided the biggest benefit. Sometimes 1+1=3 when it comes to mods.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head, there is a limit to what the stock turbo's can flow, especially on E85, and porting the manifold and turbo inlets isn't going to relieve any serious restrictions. I think there will be bigger gains to cool the intake air charge when running stock turbo's at 100% with a bigger intercooler, but that is going to be hard to show on a dyno with limited air from a fan.

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The intercooler will be my next mod and I will likely order the core within the next week. I have pretty much decided not to purchase a 10" tall core and I am settling on a 22.2x12x4.5 core from Bell. I debated on the 14" tall core but after reading about potential bumper sag and hood latch issues I feel the 12" tall core is best for my goals. With flow of 1703cfm at standard pressure drop it is enough to support 1100hp. I will also upgrade the factory intercooler piping to eliminate the rubber hoses.

 

That's a huge core for the power levels you're talking about!! Lol. At 700 or 800hp a 22x9x4 would be plenty. I love the bigger is better mentality but sometimes it's overkill and extra weight and extra response time with a bigger intercooler, when you talk to Gerrard at Bell he will probably try and talk you down. Lol. I thought the same thing about wanting the biggest that could be fit but it was decided for my power goal of 850whp, 22.2x9x4 was Ok.

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For 1000hp Gerhard suggested either the 22x12x4.5 or 22x10x4.5. He said the bigger would be ideal but that the smaller would work. I'm guessing James wants a little room to grow and doesn't want to have to replace the IC again if/when he upgrades turbos.

 

I ordered the core today and it will ship Monday. Total price for the core is ~$710 shipped for a 22.1x12x4.5 core and it flows ~1700cfm.

One thing I am lacking is the CAD for the inlet flange so I will make an offer, if you can send me a single cast inlet tube I will pay for shipping both ways, generate the CAD drawing, share the CAD drawing with everyone, and provide a pair of 1/2" cnc waterjet cut aluminum flanges free. Any help that can be provided is greatly appreciated.

 

Yep like I said, he recommended 22x9x4 for me at 850whp. I had only heard 240z talk about 700whp and 800whp. Like I said Gerhard said going to a much bigger core for me at 850hp was overkill, just a suggestion, but of course 240z will know a lot more about his end goals than I do.

 

I have 22x10x4.5 and my intake temp reach 140 deg f on 723 whp at drag strip with ambient temp 70 deg. Of course at drag you are sitting at the line for a while before the run.

 

Good data. Is that the BL IC? How are your intake temps on the street for a 50 to say 130-140 highway pull? Also on the drag strip even if you trap 140 there is a pretty good amount of the run that is at fairly low speed but very high load.

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Yesterday 68 deg ambient, 60-130 pull (start in the 50 mph range) the end of the run was about 115 deg I believe on 21 psi and lower by 3 deg c on 17 psi. Surprising on Dyno the ic temp not high I guess since pull so short. The Dyno was done with hood down and 2 smaller fans. I am pretty sure anyone with gotboost sensor data is in line with my. That is the reason many ic are for sale after people see how hot some of these temperatures are.

 

Here is a run I made the other day in my EVO on the street...1-4 gear sprint 31psi 93octane...72F ambient temperature....max pre intercooler temps 257F...max pre throttle body temps 83F....11F over ambient...GM IATs before intercooler and before throttle body. The intercooler is a Garrett front mount 24x12x3.5 with a GTX3576r making a little below 500hp@wheels. I like to see within 20F of ambient with a good intercooler so it would be good if anyone knew what the charge temps are coming out of the turbocharger on stock turbo'd GTR.

 

I was looking at your graph, how is your intake temp. Higher after there is no boost and pre intercooler temp is lower? The intake temp is higher after there is no boost then wot run gears 1-3.

 

Looks good, but that is a 925hp core on a 500hp car, the temps should look good

but the pressure drop and response will suffer. I guess it really just depends on usage. Seems like you definitely have yours planned out.

 

the pressure drop and response will suffer.

please explain

 

In large intercoolers there is more internal resistance and you have a pressure drop some lost boost essentially and the response is how long it takes to charge the system when you let off the throttle, the throttle bodies close the BOV's open then when your back on the throttle and you have to repressurize the system. Again might not be important in your application, but track cars focus heavily on response. Wouldn't really matter for a car that is built for highway pulls or the drag strip.

 

I am seeing too much data to suggest the 10" tall core is not cutting it on the GTR. Unfortunately, we don't have efficiency information on the cores to make an educated decision for what to purchase. Spearco used to provide this information for their cores, which would be nice if that was available from Bell.

As far as fill time, here is my math...
The volume difference between a 22.2 x 12 x 4.5 core and 22.2 x 10 x 4.5 core is 0.115 ft^3. Max flow from 2x stock turbos is (~960cfm) ~16 ft^3/s so it takes 0.007s to fill that extra volume at full boost. If we assume 10% of that flow (96cfm) 1.6ft^3/s then it takes 0.07s to fill the extra volume by going to a 2" taller core. My point is that it will likely be difficult to tell a difference between going to a 2" taller core.

As far as internal resisitance...
At standard pressure drop(assume 1psi, but need to verify) the 10" core flows 1679cfm and the 12" core flows 1626cfm, which is a 3.2% difference. So this tells me the pressure drop difference (internal resistance) for an 800hp car will be hard to measure between these two cores. However, I gain cooling efficiency because i have a larger cooling surface area, which is why a 14" core would be ideal in my opinion. I would not hesitate to run a 14" core on a stock turbo car, but without first hand experience I did not want to deal with potential bumper sag or hood latch issues.

Please check my math and keep in mind this is comparing larger cores vs larger cores and not stock cores vs larger cores. From my point of view if you are going to ditch the stock core and willing to trim the front ducting then go to a 12" or 14" and don't bother with a 10" core.

 

Well if you take for example the AMS Street intercooler it is 22x9x4 compared to your 22.2x12x4.5 so in that example your total area is almost 50% larger. So going to take 50% more time to charge the system give or take given piping volume. Not sure where you got your cfm's for the stock turbos but that is only at max flow at max boost, maxing out the compressor map, there will be a lot of times that they will not have that output to charge the system, example at 3000 rpms you could have less than 1/3rd of the cfm's you suggest. Like I said not a big deal and you obviously have your use planned out and it isn't a road course car. So in your uses the largest intercooler possible sounds like it is best.

 

We post this on fb, I think his temp sensor is slow responding to temp change. If you search mike wads ams street and race ic results, the street ic was hitting 171 deg after ic with start of 93 deg and race version at 122 deg iat at start of 122 deg f. This is alpha 10 at 28-30 psi and trapping 150 mph.

My experience with normal Cobb, the intake temp. On the intake is about 8 deg higher than ambient while driving. At summer in FL before launch, I was at 148 deg. Now I will bet money no ic can cool that much hot air of 257 deg to within 10 deg of air going thru ic. The btu that the ic has to be remove from 257 to 10 deg above ambient is crazy. It is like 161,000 btu/hr, (cfm*1.08*temp rise =btu/hr). If true, your radiator would be seeing crazy amount of hot air! That is equivalent to your evo intercooler cooling the equivalent of a 13 ton air conditioner.

 

We post this on fb, I think his temp sensor is slow responding to temp change.

I run standard GM IAT sensors, one before the intercooler and one before the throttle body on the EVO. Considering the pre intercooler temps rise by 150F during the run it is hard to argue the post intercooler sensor is not capable of reacting quickly enough.

 

Agreed an alpha 10 car is going to need a bigger ic I just thought we were talking about 700 or 800hp.

I would really love to try Ben's Marston core ic, but I just can't afford it.

Please PM me the FB page with the info if you don't mind. Thanks!

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Btw, a typical air conditioner the temp. Drop is only 20 deg or so between air in and air out. The fb info is all posted here.

 

I dynoed the car on 3 settings, wastegate, 17 psi and 22 psi with hood closed then right after the dyno did 60-130 mph runs on all 3 settings and here are the intake temps. with ambient temp of 68 deg F. Dyno was done with two small fans and same ambient temp. Dyno high boost first, rest 5 min or so, then Med. boost follow by Wastegate boost immediately after med. boost. 60-130 runs was wastegate first, med. then high boost.

1. WasteGate boost - at 60 mph 89.6 deg, 130 mph 105.8 deg. Dyno Temp. Start 96.8 deg, end 109.4 deg.
2. 17 psi boost - at 60 mph 93.2 deg, 130 mph 111.2 deg. Dyno Temp. start 91.4 deg, end 105.8 deg.
3. 21 psi boost - at 60 mph 96.8 deg, 130 mph 116.6 deg. Dyno temp. start 98.6 deg, end 111.2 deg.

Now drag strip, 72 deg ambient temp.,

1. Temp. before run was 127.4 deg, end of 1/4 mi run on high boost was 136.4 deg. After the heat soak at the starting line, the intake temp. dropped down to 118. deg at aroung 50 mph and from there back up to 136.4 deg.

More data, 47 deg ambient temp on high boost, pull to 135 mph from 50 mph or so. Beginning of pull 60 deg. F air end of the pull 88 deg. Looks like about 40 deg F change vs ambient temp. from rolling pulls for 60-130 mph runs for my setup on 723 whp setting.

 

What IC goon?

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Titan ic, looks the same size as my aam ic.

 

^ 4th gear and no induced load