[SpecG]

I have had a set of ID1000 on OEM fuel rails for a while.. Since the vendor says it was 'true drop in' I though it was pretty straight forward so it was installed by a mechanic last year..and last week I took my injectors out just to service them. Guess what I found out?

See my picture..

Since the ID1000 are 41mm from the tip to the slit where the metal clips lock on to.. once you have the metal clips on locked to the rails..this has basically shortened the injectors by 2mm (+- 0.5mm from movement) from the fuel rails to the tips.
The depth of the injector seat in the engine head is approx 7mm so 2mm (+-0.5mm) off is maximum of 35% off which is quite a lot

What this does is that the injectors sits very shallow in the engine head and cannot be adjusted to seat properly due to OEM fuel rails not being height adjustable. By sitting shallow in the engine head, it becomes risky to fuel leaks, moreover the fuel spray pattern is compromised. For a perfectionist like me.. this is unacceptable.. I dont not understand why they state them as 'true drop in'? What are others tuners doing to the ID1000 during installation?

What I have done to resolve this?

Please see the ID1000 picture.

I have used a hand saw to cut a circular slit on the 43mm mark.. this has basically allowed the metal locking clips to lock the ID1000 to the rails at the correct OEM specification.. therefore allowing the injectors to be seated properly into the engine head. Once installed..the injectors sits perfectly tight and ALL the way in leaving NO gaps between the engine head and the injectors..engine now starts within 1 sec of pressing the start button.. both hot cold..

I am sorry I have not taken any photos of the finished modification but it now gives me peace of mind and performs perfectly
I urge all ID1000 on OEM fuel rails users to double check their installation.. Also I dont recommend grinding OEM rail mounting holes as this height adjustment technique affects the alignment of the injectors and its seating (not vertical)

>> No offense to Tony, in fact Tony has been very helpful with my queries..but these are just my findings on these 'true drop in' injectors

EDIT - changed Title from 'aftermarket injectors' to 'ID1000 injectors'

 

[Goonthree]

Nice to know and good info. i wonder if ID2000 need the same mod?

 

[SpecG]

The ID2000 is not compatible with the metal clips, but according to its specification (with extension adapter) its the same length (o ring to o ring) as OEM injectors at approx. 56.6mm
therefore I dont think it will need the mod..moreover, the ID2000 has extension adapter that matches the OEM specification.

 

[Tony1]

Wait, are you saying that 2mm further into the intake manifold makes a difference in how the car starts and runs???

If there was a leak between the injectors and the head there would be a vacuum leak and EVERYONE would have this problem.

If there was a leak between the rail and the injectors then there would be a fuel leak, and obviously that would be a big problem.

I can check the numbers on Monday, but I can assure you there are over 500 GTR's out there with ID1000's that have neither a fuel leak or a vacuum leak.

Orings are great pieces and simple pieces. If they are in the bore, the seal. The bottom oring being 2mm further into the intake manifold bore will make no difference at all.

 

[Tony1]

Also, to anyone reading this. Please do not take a hacksaw to your injectors and cut a new groove for the clip. The potential for problems will be increased significantly and the warranty will be void.

 

[[email protected]]

Tony is right, if it seals it seals, I have the Bosch's in mine and many many others and no problems at all. If the injectors were leaking air, we would have very serious tuning and drivability issues.

 

[SpecG]

no its not leaking..but its definitely not positioned like OEMs

 

[Tony1]

That doesn't really mean anything. You're talking about 2mm, you realize that's only 80 thousandths of an inch?

To say that's where the OEM tip is so that's where it belongs also holds no bearing when you're considering two different injectors with very different spray patterns and outlet velocity.

I agree with you, it's slightly different in that regard, but to say it's wrong and not a drop in is false. They definitely do not need to be modified to work properly.

 

[SpecG]

the o-rings are pretty far up the seating you can actually see it.. anyhow all im trying to point out is that the injectors are not solidly mounted on.. they can move if you dont modify them. Once I modified mine they are perfectly seated exactly like OEMs... it just bugs me when some vendors state 'true drop in' or 'stock like drivabliltiy' when they are not.

 

[Tony1]

They are true bolt in and do have stock drivability. If your car doesn't drive lock stock then it's tuning related.

No offense, but i've seen some of your posts in the AT forum, you're far from an expert in the field. Again, seriously, no offense, but I have to defend my product when someone is making claims such as this that are not true.

You are right, the length is slightly different from stock. You are wrong in that that is a problem though.

Injectors are not supposed to be tight in their final installation.

If you have the clip on the injector then it would sit no different from before and after your modification as the lower oring is in the bore both ways. Please explain exactly how they were moving before and they are not now.

 

[SpecG]

Your injectors are stock like drivability.. i just meant other vendors that says the same sort of stuff.. and no offense taken, yes I admit I am no expert in the field I will change the title to a more appropriate one, other members can care about this little adjustment or not is up to them.

Just a thought.. what would Ferrari or Mclaren do if they see that their injectors are 2mm off.. do you think they would think like you?

no its ok it works...

I doubt it very much..once you re trying to improve yourself..its the attention to details that makes the difference no matter what.. thats what distinguish between A's and A+'s.

 

[Tony1]

There are definitely a lot of people that make claims that are not true, i'm right there with you in your frustration of seeing/dealing with it.

I like to think we're a little different than those companies though and we have the data and test results to back up our claims. Check the Injector Dynamics website, you won't find another injector company with 10% of that technical information on their site, or in their possession at all.

 

[grnvette65]

this is the first time im hearing that there is a difference in height, im wondering if that is why some are having trouble starting their car at times. also i see alot of people selling their id 1000 injectors after 2-3k mi. imo i think 2mm is a significant considering how sensitive the car is w simple mods

 

[audioenvy]

this is the first time im hearing that there is a difference in height, im wondering if that is why some are having trouble starting their car at times. also i see alot of people selling their id 1000 injectors after 2-3k mi. imo i think 2mm is a significant considering how sensitive the car is w simple mods

Oh no you didn't.

The trouble starting has to do with not (yet) having access to the crank tables via the Cobb AccessPort. It's mainly an E85 issue. I don't think people with 1000cc injectors are having any cranking issues on 91/93 octane fuel. The people selling their 1000cc injectors are either going back to stock for reasons that have nothing to do with the injectors or they are addicted to power and need even larger injectors to feed their addiction.

 

[BTurgidson]

I've been running the ID1000's for over a year now and have had zero issues with them.

 

[grnvette65]

there was a post on an issue w episodic starting problems w id1000 injectors on pump gas, in fact that person goes as far to say its embarrassing if people are around when he starts his car. i realize the issue w the injector is prob related to the oil used for storage but i pose this also as a possibility since im not well versed in this and the info i gain is via forums. btw i can see changing injectors for more power but why would one go back to stock if the purpose to go w larger injectors is to avoid maxing out the stock injectors; going from 1000cc to stock would presume stock has an advantage and i guess that would be drivability

 

[Visconti]

there was a post on an issue w episodic starting problems w id1000 injectors on pump gas, in fact that person goes as far to say its embarrassing if people are around when he starts his car. i realize the issue w the injector is prob related to the oil used for storage but i pose this also as a possibility since im not well versed in this and the info i gain is via forums. btw i can see changing injectors for more power but why would one go back to stock if the purpose to go w larger injectors is to avoid maxing out the stock injectors; going from 1000cc to stock would presume stock has an advantage and i guess that would be drivability

They had a bad set of injectors...

 

[audioenvy]

there was a post on an issue w episodic starting problems w id1000 injectors on pump gas

My recollection is it was E85 but I could be wrong.

 

[DChan415]

SpecG is over analyzing the situation. He's concerned that the slight difference in injector height may cause the spray pattern to be interrupted by the bore. It really won't make a difference and as long as the o-ring seal is tight, it'll be fine. They don't need to bottom out in the bore.

 

[grnvette65]

thanks for the reassurance, i do realize a lot of cars have the id 1000 and their fine