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What do YOU think?

  • Go HAM. It's fine.

  • A day or two at the strip or track should be ok.

  • A launch or two on the street, but that's it...no prepped surfaces.

  • Keep the boost low and you're golden.

  • Launches are fine...watch the 3-4 shift.

  • You're doomed. Pull the engine now while it's still in one piece.

  • How TF is it still running?

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So. Got my car last week. The more people I talk to, the more all over the place the responses as far as the overall "fragility" of the car/build become. The car is basically just FBO with bigger turbos. The previous owner installed:

Intakes
Downpipes
Mid-pipes
Exhaust
1300cc injectors
Dual Walbro 450s
Flex-fuel kit
AMS IC
IC piping
HKS GT1000 turbos

...and a couple other odds and ends. Found a video of the car on the dyno where it made 815hp/660tq on E85.

Now...no idea why the previous owner dropped almost nine grand on turbos instead of doing the bottom end and the transmission (which is what I would have done...) but that's what he did. And from what I understand, 660tq is pushing it, but this isn't the tune that's on the car now. It's not making that much power anymore.

So...I'm going to be getting it re-tuned soon...I'm definitely going to build the engine and trans as soon as possible, but in the meantime, I'd like to get as much out of the car as I safely can. If I kept it around 600-620tq, how safe do you think it is with the stock engine and trans? I've heard all KINDS of different things. What do YOU think? Vote above!!
 

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The more people I talk to, the more all over the place the responses as far as the overall "fragility" of the car/build become
I'd be interested in what you've heard.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'd be interested in what you've heard.
Seriously everything from "don't launch it" to "the stock trans has been 9.2" to a tuner yesterday telling me (and I'm roughly quoting) "it's a grenade with the pin pulled"...I was under the impression that, as long as you kept things below 650tq, you were fine. Hearing lots of different stuff now.
 

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Yeah, there are a lot of varying opinions on the matter. As with most modifications there is a certain level of risk associated with any modifications and just know it does accelerate when the stock components will let go. Following the general guidance of limiting torque and not loading up in the low rpm range should help. I'll add, don't keep hot lapping the car with back-back-back-back-back pulls when the fluid temps are high (230F+). Give it some time to cool off. Also know most folks don't run the kill map and full boost on the street.

That said, although I'm no official source, I'm on my second turbo upgraded GTR on stock drivetrain and block. This is not advice but my general comfort level with the car after seeing the results and talking with owners who have been down the same road from start to end. Everything people have told you not to do, I've done as have other owners that have similar mods and we've been to Mexico more than one should. Plenty of 60-130 pulls with that 3-4 shift. I have over 30 recorded TC-off launches at the track on prepped surfaces and plenty of others with R-mode launches on R888Rs. All using BOTL set at 1.3 BAR or higher which is what my tuner recommended as a starting point. I even asked about using slicks and was told it'll be okay for a time. Not, "it'll blow up" or "it'll be fine" but somewhere in the middle as degradation is expected over time. Where your car is in terms of that time clock is unknown so that's something you'll need to be comfortable with if the choice is to remain on stock components for a time.


There's not some magic black/white answer and it'll come down to what you're comfortable with based on the history of the car that you do have. There are shops that do warranty similar setups for a year with unlimited mileage (using their tune) so know this isn't some new level of upgrade with unexpected outcomes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'll add, don't keep hot lapping the car with back-back-back-back-back pulls when the fluid temps are high (230F+). Give it some time to cool off. Also know most folks don't run the kill map and full boost on the street.
230. Got it. Good to know. Thanks!

That said, although I'm no official source, I'm on my second turbo upgraded GTR on stock drivetrain and block. This is not advice but my general comfort level with the car after seeing the results and talking with owners who have been down the same road from start to end.
THIS is EXACTLY what I'm looking for. That's what this thread is for. To create a "crowdsourced consensus", if you will. You could ask 5 people a question and get 4 different answers, but if you ask 500 people, you can get much more reliable info.

Everything people have told you not to do, I've done as have other owners that have similar mods and we've been to Mexico more than one should. Plenty of 60-130 pulls with that 3-4 shift. I have over 30 recorded TC-off launches at the track on prepped surfaces and plenty of others with R-mode launches on R888Rs.
Cool to hear. Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to be like, "they said I'm good!" and go drive like an ass. It's all about seeing stories, experiences and info from as many people as I can so I can best judge what is most likely safe and not safe to do with the car. Perfect. Thanks.

All using BOTL set at 1.3 BAR or higher which is what my tuner recommended as a starting point.
Is this another way of saying "launch control"?

There's not some magic black/white answer and it'll come down to what you're comfortable with based on the history of the car that you do have. There are shops that do warranty similar setups for a year with unlimited mileage (using their tune) so know this isn't some new level of upgrade with unexpected outcomes.
This is actually one of the main reasons I've wanted one of these for so long. Seeing what the aftermarket and community has done and how far it's come as a platform has been SO cool!! That's also why I was a little surprised to get such varied responses regarding "dos and don'ts", but still...TONS of knowledgeable, experienced people out there and I'm all about it! I'm all ears! (...er...all eyes? lol)
 

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230. Got it. Good to know. Thanks!
Again, not an absolute number but what I'm comfortable with. Some like to and can push it much higher but they may not be pushing the power limits or the stock trans/gears. At the most recent track day a few weeks back, the participation for the roll racing portion of the event was sparse so we were able to hot lap as many times as possible in the span of an hour. I elected to sit out after 6 passes and cool things down when the temps were closer to 230F. Could I have kept going? Probably.

Is this another way of saying "launch control"?
BOTL is boost off the line which is often used with launch control.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Again, not an absolute number but what I'm comfortable with. Some like to and can push it much higher but they may not be pushing the power limits or the stock trans/gears. At the most recent track day a few weeks back, the participation for the roll racing portion of the event was sparse so we were able to hot lap as many times as possible in the span of an hour. I elected to sit out after 6 passes and cool things down when the temps were closer to 230F. Could I have kept going? Probably.
Hey, I'd much rather play it on the safe side.

BOTL is boost off the line which is often used with launch control.
Hmmm...never heard of that.
 

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It all comes down to your level of acceptable risk.

Load your stock motor up with enough of tq, and you will bend your rods. At the end of the day you are adding 50%, 100%, 200% more power so things will break.

It’s racing, everything breaks, just depends on when.

Get a good tuner to retune your and you’ll be fine. A lot has been learned over the almost 15 years these have been out.
 
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I made the same choice. How much do I want to make vs. how much do I want to risk. Stopped mine at 829hp/628tq. The turbos can keep going but my builder (Fabshop), tuner (Ivey) and I felt that was a safe enough point.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I would build the short block.
I have a bonus coming and I'm thinking that may just happen. 😁 (EDIT: I coulda SWORN that was $7500 just a couple days ago...hmm...)

Someone in a Facebook group had a good point...blowing the trans up sucks but can generally be rebuilt...window your block and you're in for a world of hurt. lol
 

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ha..........what a slippery slope we slide downwards.

Almost all of all the people that have commented here are words of wisdom. You have comments from the Top Gun.
Good Luck.
 
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And this is what's in the works right now. I know that, at the end of the day, it all comes down to the tune.
Speaking of tunes. I don't have any dyno numbers but my tuner just posted a dyno sheet and Dragy data on FB from another stock motor/trans upgraded turbo car he just finished. We ran almost identical numbers except my DA was +6000 ft higher. I'd kill for a -500 ft DA but it isn't going to happen here in Colorado. Not saying you shoot for these power numbers as a goal but the numbers can be replicated if you're comfortable with them and the TQ figure is still under the consensus limit of 650 ft-lbs.

Dragy graph #1 is the car he just recently tuned with the corresponding dyno graph below and Dragy graphs #2 & #3 were from my car a few months back. The 9.87 run was cut short.

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