[boarderag]

I just ran my first track day last weekend on my Michelin PSS (295 rear, 275 fronts), and here are my first impressions:

Pros:
-Virtually the same amount of grip at the limit as the OEM Bridgestones
-Cheaper than the OEM tires
-The tires appear to wear slower than the Bridgestones, but It is not a huge difference. More track days are needed to say for sure. Also, I was running the 275's up front instead of 285's, and there is significantly more meat on the 285's, so I am sure you would get much better wear rates with the 285's up front.

Cons:
-Car feels more bouncy on bumpy areas of the track. This is a little unsettling at speed, but did not seem to actually affect the handling.
-Tires seem like they are more sensitive to changes in pressure than the OEM's. After a full lapping session, the increase in tire pressure more noticeably affected tire grip.
-The PSS's seemed like they got greasy more quickly than the bridgestones.

Conclusion:
Even with the cons I described above, I was able to turn in lap times that were as good, or even a few ticks quicker than when I was on the OEM Bridgestones. This is also after I had not been on a track in 6 months. Because the performance of these tires are virtually identical to the OEM tires, along with the fact that they last longer and are cheaper than OEM, I think the Michelin PSS are perfect for anyone who tracks their car, but does not have a separate set of wheels/tires for the track.

The fact that these tires are worlds better than OEM for daily driving, but maintain almost equal performance at the track as OEM, speaks to how good of a job Michelin has done in developing this tire. Two thumbs up from me. As I run more track days, I will be able to comment more on the durability and longevity of these tires.

 

[acuteperformance]

Thanks for the great writeup. Have you tried R888 before on the track?

 

[gogoevo]

Good write up. Do you or anyone else care to speculate on how these tires will perform with an occasional AutoX?

 

[alexdavis]

Thanks for the great writeup. Have you tried R888 before on the track?

And, either of them at the drag-strip?

Alexd

 

[jmunjr]

I have run 275s up front with 285s and a square 285 setup. When new they were close to the Dunlops but I think the Dunlops were faster/grippier a little. The bridgestones perhaps are more similar. I agree with the bounciness and the wear seems to be less than OEM so longer lasting. With age the the tires are not as good but that is true of most tires...

 

[dsu*]

interesting to hear that these have similar grip with the OEM run flats. I would assume they would have a lot more grip, and they would sit nicer through turns because they are non-run flats. Also.... if they have the same grip as OEM tires, then they should turn in faster laps since these are lighter than the OEM tires?

My friends who track runs R888 on the track, they love it. Much more grip when compare to other street tires out there.

 

[whitemice]

Curious to know what your cold and hot tire pressures where for front and rear.

 

[boarderag]

Curious to know what your cold and hot tire pressures where for front and rear.

on the street, I usually have them at about 35psi cold. At the track, you need to drop them to 32-35 psi cold to start with. Fronts need to be lower than rears as they heat up more/faster. I was running them at about 40 psi hot, but the pressure kept getting higher than that by the end of the session. I never really quite dialed in the pressures, but I will have a better idea of where to start them at next time I go out. When they get over 40psi hot, you can definitely feel them become a bit more slippery. Not terrible, but it felt less planted, especially on corner exit.

 

[jmunjr]

I don't think these grip as well as the Dunlops which are OEM. As for R888s they were a little grippier at first but then dropped off considerably after just a few sessions...

 

[boarderag]

I don't think these grip as well as the Dunlops which are OEM. As for R888s they were a little grippier at first but then dropped off considerably after just a few sessions...

from what I've heard, the Dunlops are grippier than the Bridgestones. Since I only have experience with the Bridgestones, that is what I was referring to when I said OEM. That being said, I believe that the difference between the three tires is small enough that it will not significantly impact the lap times of an amateur driver. I'm sure a hardcore track guy or a pro could squeeze out every last bit of grip from the tires, and therefore be able to benefit from the superior grip of the Dunlops, but if the driver is that hardcore they would likely have a separate set of wheels/tires with R compounds or slicks anyways.

I still think these are the best tires for the casual track goer that does a handful of track days per year simply because they do everything better than the OEM's except they have slightly less grip.

 

[alexdavis]

My 2012 OEMs are Dunlops. So, I'm still trying to learn from other peoples experience what would be stickier. I sometimes drag-race but don't track, however I prefer not to lose too much cornering ability on a DD. Comfort/noise/tire-life aren't too important to me, but I want to stay with the stock wheels.

Several have recommended the PSS, but is it significantly stickier?

Alexd

 

[boarderag]

My 2012 OEMs are Dunlops. So, I'm still trying to learn from other peoples experience what would be stickier. I sometimes drag-race but don't track, however I prefer not to lose too much cornering ability on a DD. Comfort/noise/tire-life aren't too important to me, but I want to stay with the stock wheels.

Several have recommended the PSS, but is it significantly stickier?

Alexd

No, the Dunlops will be stickier. But if you don't track your car, why do you care about absolute at the limit cornering ability? While the Dunlops are a little stickier than the PSS, the difference would only be noticed at the limit on a track. And for drag racing they are both very close. If you were that concerned about max grip for drag racing, you should get a pair of drag radials for the back.

 

[alexdavis]

No, the Dunlops will be stickier. But if you don't track your car, why do you care about absolute at the limit cornering ability? While the Dunlops are a little stickier than the PSS, the difference would only be noticed at the limit on a track. And for drag racing they are both very close. If you were that concerned about max grip for drag racing, you should get a pair of drag radials for the back.

Everything you're saying is correct, but with these adjustments: In REGULAR hard cornering (not limit stuff), I don't want to lose anything. And, of course Drag-Radials; but I'm still Daily Driving, and any DR that I know of would severely compromise cornering, as well as other things.

So, maybe I should re-phrase: What's significantly stickier than what I have (60' 1.72), but doesn't compromise 80% cornering...on a 20" wheel?

Alexd

 

[boarderag]

Everything you're saying is correct, but with these adjustments: In REGULAR hard cornering (not limit stuff), I don't want to lose anything. And, of course Drag-Radials; but I'm still Daily Driving, and any DR that I know of would severely compromise cornering, as well as other things.

So, maybe I should re-phrase: What's significantly stickier than what I have (60' 1.72), but doesn't compromise 80% cornering...on a 20" wheel?

Alexd

The answer is nothing is significantly stickier than the OEM Dunlops other than drag radials or slicks. However, what I'm trying to say is that the PSS will perform just as well as your Dunlops under the parameters you have given, except that they are cheaper, quieter, more comfortable, last longer, are better in the rain, and tire shops won't scratch up the wheels when putting them on (2 out of the 3 times I've had runflats put on, at least 1 wheel ended up getting scratched). So for a daily driven GTR, there is no better tire out there than the PSS in my opinion.

 

[alexdavis]

The answer is nothing is significantly stickier than the OEM Dunlops other than drag radials or slicks. However, what I'm trying to say is that the PSS will perform just as well as your Dunlops under the parameters you have given, except that they are cheaper, quieter, more comfortable, last longer, are better in the rain, and tire shops won't scratch up the wheels when putting them on (2 out of the 3 times I've had runflats put on, at least 1 wheel ended up getting scratched). So for a daily driven GTR, there is no better tire out there than the PSS in my opinion.

That's fair...thanks!

Alexd

 

[gogoevo]

The answer is nothing is significantly stickier than the OEM Dunlops other than drag radials or slicks. However, what I'm trying to say is that the PSS will perform just as well as your Dunlops under the parameters you have given, except that they are cheaper, quieter, more comfortable, last longer, are better in the rain, and tire shops won't scratch up the wheels when putting them on (2 out of the 3 times I've had runflats put on, at least 1 wheel ended up getting scratched). So for a daily driven GTR, there is no better tire out there than the PSS in my opinion.

Indeed, that's fair. But, coming from (R888) 285f, and 315r lowered, what looks as good if not better? I'm afraid that by going with a 285sq setup the rears will look stretched. Moreover, if I go with 295sq I will likely rub in front but look "ok" in the rear. This spoils my plan to "rotate" in order to get the max life out of the tires. I guess I want my cake, and..............

 

[jmunjr]

Indeed, that's fair. But, coming from (R888) 285f, and 315r lowered, what looks as good if not better? I'm afraid that by going with a 285sq setup the rears will look stretched. Moreover, if I go with 295sq I will likely rub in front but look "ok" in the rear. This spoils my plan to "rotate" in order to get the max life out of the tires. I guess I want my cake, and..............

285 square the rears don't look stretched at all. This is the stock setup so it better not. I have had bridgestones, dunlops, R888s and PSS on my rears in 285 and they have all looked great.

 

[gogoevo]

Thanks, jmunjr!

 

[alexdavis]

I'm about to order the Michelins, but I'm hoping that one of you will advise me as to what size options I can have...keeping in mind the 3% range that I'm told the ECU allows in "roll-out" differences, without promoting an error code. Stock is 275/40/20 front, 285/35/20 rear. What other options can I use, with the rationale being to increase straight-line traction? (hopefully not adding too much extra weight) I don't want to use spacers.

Alexd

 

[Cheburashka]

great review, the kind I was looking for. Most likely will give the PSS a try after the R888's are done!