Review of Gwinnett Place Nissan-Duluth, GA. This took about 50+ hours to experience, I ask for 5-15m of your time. This is a long read.
I reached out to Paul Miller at Gwinnett Place Nissan on Oct 24th, about the following car (VIN: JN1AR54F89M251511) they listed: http://www.nagtroc.o...-ga-dealership/ I told Paul I was in NY and had a 2011 370z as a trade.
On the 24th, after speaking to Paul Miller at Gwinnett Place Nissan on the phone, I had requested:
1) Detailed photos, engine shots, interior.
2) Maintenance schedule for GTR owner.
3) # of prior GTR owner / customer.
4) Details of maintenance / options.
I then responded with:
You'll notice Paul Miller of Gwinnett Place Nissan avoided sending me any high quality CLOSE-UP images of the car. You can see from the those pictures the car looks mint. Not a single chip, ding or scratch. This is completely false, misleading and downright fraudulent.
From Paul Miller of Gwinnett Place Nissan:
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Pictures taken by me on Nov 7th:
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On Oct 24 I requested the 18k service be done ahead of time, "so it's all good to go when I arrive":
"So the price of the car is really 63,xxx since all taxes are included"
Paul's response: "Yes" **(a fraudulent statement made by Paul)*
Me: "Oh, that's a good deal then, yeah great"
Before running the final numbers and submitting them to Nissan (I was financing as well) I had asked Paul for the current grand total, because they said they needed to add in an Extended Warranty because of my limited credit history, the banks are more inclined to lend money when they know you can afford maintenance on the car, and you won't default. I said, OK, makes sense, but can you please give me a final number so I know what we're at; the warranty was quoted to me in the 4,500 $ realm. Paul said he wasn't sure, but we should run the numbers and when they come back we can go over them, I said OK.
I got the numbers on Oct 27 and a line-item existed for the taxes Paul and I had talked about. Also, in between, I had got some quotes for my car. Paul had offered 29,500 and I felt 32k was more fair. I responded back w/the following changes:
In all honesty, I fell for the tactics and decided to continue despite seeing red flags and being told many lies. These lies were told meant for me to believe, I tried to give these salesmen my trust and believe what they were telling me. Gwinnett Place Nissan's customers should not have to feel any mistrust. Any customer at any dealer should be able to trust what a salesmen is telling them about the condition of a car - especially in a very delicate situation like this - being 15 hours away to purchase a used sports/super car. A GTR, the pinnacle of Nissans engineering, which should include the highest quality buying experience, IMO.
Trying to move forward, I asked the following to be completed to close the deal:
Here's a picture taken by me on Nov 7th of the rears:
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The remaining items were worked out throughout the day. At this point Paul Miller of Gwinnett Place Nissan is pushing I put down a deposit. Paul responded this in an email I have about the deposit:
The Sales Manager Alex, later contradicted Paul's statement and stated that is NOT true. The deposit is only refundable IF my car has an issue that I didn't disclose or the GTR has an undisclosed issue, otherwise it is not refundable.
Next, I spoke to the previous owner, he said he had non-OEM fluids in the car. I asked Paul to fix this:
There was some back and forth and finally Alex stepped in on the 29th:
I called and Paul said unless I came down today another person was taking the car. I said, "no-way, can't come until next week and I'll have to walk away from the deal".
We parted and he said he'd keep me in mind for a future GTR.
I got a call at around ~5PM that night, saying the other buyer couldn't get credit/financing arranged and was backing out. He gave me needless details about the other buyer, which is extremely unprofessional as well as makes me question the validity of the statement. But again, at the time, I believed it. I was told I had to put a down on the car, but I could have it and pick it up next week. He said, "a young doctor with great income, but no credit history, so he can't get financing".
I put down my deposit on Nov 1st. Oct 4th the car went into service according to Paul and was "finishing up soon" @ 1:00PM on Oct 5th. I arranged to drive down on Sunday, Nov 6th, pickup the car 9AM on Monday Nov 7th and drive home.
Sunday Nov 6th, I drove ~15 hours from NY to GA. I got a call from Paul at about 10AM Monday Nov 7th telling me to wait until noon, which was not acceptable considering my commute and I had put my deposit on Nov 1st giving them ONE WEEK to get the car ready.
At noon, I got another call from Paul telling me that Alex was not in yet and they had to finish detailing the car, and I should wait another hour before coming to the dealership. From a professional stand point, this was extremely inconsiderate and unprofessional. However, I was eager and staying at a hotel up the street so I decided to drive on over and wait at the dealership.
I arrive at the dealer and Paul get's my name wrong, calls me Martin. Unacceptable. We go outside to look at the GTR (which was NOT being detailed, another fraudulent statement) and the condition of the car was alarming. This car has been abused. It looks like NOTHING in the picture - As you can see from the pictures I took, and the pictures Paul sent, it looks like two different cars.
The entire front of the car is pitted up. It looks worse than my 90k mile audi, and this GTR has 17k miles, "pristine", "beautiful", "never been launched or raced or modded" (I asked Paul this - I think it's the most generic question you can ask, "Has this GTR been launched - can you pull the flicker data"). Paul had fraudulently told me for weeks that it hadn't. However, speaking to the President (who I later spoke with) he informed me, "This car was **driven** and you should have been told that". He even went on to say, "it was probably raced" and that he felt one of the prior owners had tuned the ECU and this was what was causing the issues/CELs. Again, not fact, since he's not a tech, but his thoughts to me.
As I'm looking at the car I'm noticing a ton of wear, nicks, scratches, etc that I was never told about. I have pictures of many of them. I also noticed the rear tires only had a few thousand miles left on them whereas Paul had told me all tires were new. There are even some gashes on the car. Something that should have been disclosed.
Paul tells me to get in and start the car, he has a surprise for me. Probably the most unprofessional statement made by Paul yet. I start the car and it's throwing a CEL. He says, it's OK because I'm "going to get the honor to meet the owner of Forged because we are going to flatbed the GTR there to get fixed."
Now I can't even test drive the car because it's throwing a CEL and we have to drive 50 miles each way w/the car flat bedded to get it fixed. I was starting to get really confused that this was even happening. I went inside and my wife and I were trying to understand the issue.
Paul basically said, "The techs flashed the ECU w/a 2010's software, not a 2009. We don't have the 2009 so we have to go to Forged to get it." I really didn't understand this at all. Apparently they got on the phone and figured out (maybe someone emailed them the ROM/Flash file, I don't know), but they fixed it, however another issue evolved and the car was now throwing a transmission related CEL. Paul said no worries the GTR techs at Nissan are on the phone right now with their head tech fixing it.
Paul immediately says, "lets start the paperwork." I'm literally in a daze and as I'm walking to my car to get the paperwork, I stopped and talked to my wife. We both finally understood the severity of the entire situation. I was very angry and demanded clarity and received non whatsoever.
My wife and I left the dealer, but I turned back and decided I was going to at least speak to the whomever is in charge of the facility. I sat down with Lee Crumpton the President and explained the pictures and the difference from the actual car. I explained how I was told the tires were new. I explained how Paul said the car was never raced or launched but it clearly was. I explained how I was never even called or told about these issues until I actually got to the dealer to test drive and it's throwing a CEL. How did they think this was going to end, when I drove 800+ miles to pickup a pristine, never launched GTR and it's throwing a CEL and cannot even legally be sold to me (NYS will not allow inspection of a vehicle that is throwing a CEL).
Even more so outrageous, all morning I was told different excuses to delay me coming to the dealer. I explained this is NO way to treat someone, for a 6,700 car or a 67,000. At this point Lee was understanding and wanted to go back and see what the deal was. Apparently he only found out about this deal that morning. As cordial as Lee was, this was appalling.
Lee left his office to investigate the issue with the car, returned shortly , and explained the CEL that was now being thrown, they cannot fix and will need to order part(s) from Nissan and this could take 1-2 days and there is no way he could even sell the car at this point - and no way I'd even buy it. I left and drove 15 hours to get home.
To recap:
I will give little credit to Lee Crumpton, President of Gwinnett Place Nissan for speaking with me and seeming to understand my issues. He was very sympathetic and a bit confused / upset as to how this could happen. However, it is very disconcerting to have all of this happen under someone's supervision and authority.
He said I can send him all my travel expenses and I will be sending them to him tomorrow. He also proposed that once the car is fixed he would flatbed it to NY, I could test drive and decide if I want it, and he would flatbed my Z back to GA, all expenses paid for by him. Who knows if this is true or not, but I would not do business with them and raise caution to others considering it as well. It is unfortunate, but factual that they cannot be trusted. Who knows what other issues are wrong w/the car, never even got to drive it ...
I wish I could say I should have done more "due diligence". But I clearly did. I asked many questions, was very thorough and cautious and when I received answers I had no reason to not believe them.
In retrospect, I was obviously wrong. Should I have walked away from the deal after the first red flag, the false information regarding the cost of the car and taxes, yes. But I didn't. I've been eyeing GTR's since they were C110s, R32, R34s, etc etc. Even the C10 is beautiful. I saw an opportunity to get one, a color I really liked, from a GTR Certified Nissan Dealer (which was very important to me at the time, regarding warranty, because of all the horror threads I've read w/the 09's and transmissions). Buying a GTR isn't a casual decision for me. I felt I asked the right questions and had everything lined up the best I could. GTR customers deserve a completely different quality of salesmanship and I would caution anyone dealing with Gwinnett Place Nissan.
Errata:
Images of the emails I quoted above:
- http://dl.dropbox.co....07.15%20PM.png
- http://dl.dropbox.co....07.30%20PM.png
- http://dl.dropbox.co....08.02%20PM.png
- http://dl.dropbox.co....08.13%20PM.png
- http://dl.dropbox.co....09.06%20PM.png
- http://dl.dropbox.co....09.43%20PM.png
- http://dl.dropbox.co....15.24%20PM.png
I reached out to Paul Miller at Gwinnett Place Nissan on Oct 24th, about the following car (VIN: JN1AR54F89M251511) they listed: http://www.nagtroc.o...-ga-dealership/ I told Paul I was in NY and had a 2011 370z as a trade.
On the 24th, after speaking to Paul Miller at Gwinnett Place Nissan on the phone, I had requested:
1) Detailed photos, engine shots, interior.
2) Maintenance schedule for GTR owner.
3) # of prior GTR owner / customer.
4) Details of maintenance / options.
I then responded with:
Paul Miller of Gwinnett Place Nissan did not answer my requests - instead he responded with a list of GTR owners I could call to ask questions about the car, including the previous owner. (Only after over a week, while other issues listed below were occurring, did he finally respond with closer images - however if you compare them with the photos I took when I arrived you will see that they were very deceptive and did not show any detail of the damages)
You'll notice Paul Miller of Gwinnett Place Nissan avoided sending me any high quality CLOSE-UP images of the car. You can see from the those pictures the car looks mint. Not a single chip, ding or scratch. This is completely false, misleading and downright fraudulent.
From Paul Miller of Gwinnett Place Nissan:
Pictures taken by me on Nov 7th:
On Oct 24 I requested the 18k service be done ahead of time, "so it's all good to go when I arrive":
Which he responded:
Paul and I continued to work on the numbers (between Oct 24th and 27th) and because I'm out of state and on my last purchases got hit with taxes (private sale and a dealer sale) I was really unsure of how taxes would be processed. After about 5 conversations with Paul and Alex I finally understood how it all would work. On the phone I had asked Paul, point-blank,
"So the price of the car is really 63,xxx since all taxes are included"
Paul's response: "Yes" **(a fraudulent statement made by Paul)*
Me: "Oh, that's a good deal then, yeah great"
Before running the final numbers and submitting them to Nissan (I was financing as well) I had asked Paul for the current grand total, because they said they needed to add in an Extended Warranty because of my limited credit history, the banks are more inclined to lend money when they know you can afford maintenance on the car, and you won't default. I said, OK, makes sense, but can you please give me a final number so I know what we're at; the warranty was quoted to me in the 4,500 $ realm. Paul said he wasn't sure, but we should run the numbers and when they come back we can go over them, I said OK.
I got the numbers on Oct 27 and a line-item existed for the taxes Paul and I had talked about. Also, in between, I had got some quotes for my car. Paul had offered 29,500 and I felt 32k was more fair. I responded back w/the following changes:
- Remove the taxes, Paul said they were included in the cost
- Remove the dealer fee and title charge
- Give me more money for the trade
The above letter written by Alex Hoang was unprofessional on many levels. Final igures were not yet discussed and certainly not agreed upon. As a customer, I did not even know what the final figures were as both Alex and Paul were being very deceptive instead of being clear. In fact, final is the wrong term. Paul and I had spoken about numbers, but nothing final. We were all in the negotiation phase. More importantly, how does Alex Hoang (a General Sales Manager) submit a loan application without my consent on "figures" that had not been discussed or agreed upon. This is inexcusable.
In all honesty, I fell for the tactics and decided to continue despite seeing red flags and being told many lies. These lies were told meant for me to believe, I tried to give these salesmen my trust and believe what they were telling me. Gwinnett Place Nissan's customers should not have to feel any mistrust. Any customer at any dealer should be able to trust what a salesmen is telling them about the condition of a car - especially in a very delicate situation like this - being 15 hours away to purchase a used sports/super car. A GTR, the pinnacle of Nissans engineering, which should include the highest quality buying experience, IMO.
Trying to move forward, I asked the following to be completed to close the deal:
I never got tire images, but was told it had all new tires.
Here's a picture taken by me on Nov 7th of the rears:
The remaining items were worked out throughout the day. At this point Paul Miller of Gwinnett Place Nissan is pushing I put down a deposit. Paul responded this in an email I have about the deposit:
The above quote from Paul confirms that all verbal and written communication with Paul of Gwinnett Place Nissan was very informal and unprofessional. He gave no details to a refund policy.
The Sales Manager Alex, later contradicted Paul's statement and stated that is NOT true. The deposit is only refundable IF my car has an issue that I didn't disclose or the GTR has an undisclosed issue, otherwise it is not refundable.
Next, I spoke to the previous owner, he said he had non-OEM fluids in the car. I asked Paul to fix this:
Paul responded:
Paul clearly avoided my request and avoided my concern. Again, the tactic of catching my emotions was used ("schedule a time for you to take delivery of your GTR" when I was clearly asking for detailed information and a serious request concerning the state of the vehicle. I am led to believe, again, that the care is in "pristine condition" and ready for me to take - which was a fraudulent statement.
There was some back and forth and finally Alex stepped in on the 29th:
On the 30th Paul texted me:
Extremely unprofessional IMO.
I called and Paul said unless I came down today another person was taking the car. I said, "no-way, can't come until next week and I'll have to walk away from the deal".
We parted and he said he'd keep me in mind for a future GTR.
I got a call at around ~5PM that night, saying the other buyer couldn't get credit/financing arranged and was backing out. He gave me needless details about the other buyer, which is extremely unprofessional as well as makes me question the validity of the statement. But again, at the time, I believed it. I was told I had to put a down on the car, but I could have it and pick it up next week. He said, "a young doctor with great income, but no credit history, so he can't get financing".
I put down my deposit on Nov 1st. Oct 4th the car went into service according to Paul and was "finishing up soon" @ 1:00PM on Oct 5th. I arranged to drive down on Sunday, Nov 6th, pickup the car 9AM on Monday Nov 7th and drive home.
Sunday Nov 6th, I drove ~15 hours from NY to GA. I got a call from Paul at about 10AM Monday Nov 7th telling me to wait until noon, which was not acceptable considering my commute and I had put my deposit on Nov 1st giving them ONE WEEK to get the car ready.
At noon, I got another call from Paul telling me that Alex was not in yet and they had to finish detailing the car, and I should wait another hour before coming to the dealership. From a professional stand point, this was extremely inconsiderate and unprofessional. However, I was eager and staying at a hotel up the street so I decided to drive on over and wait at the dealership.
I arrive at the dealer and Paul get's my name wrong, calls me Martin. Unacceptable. We go outside to look at the GTR (which was NOT being detailed, another fraudulent statement) and the condition of the car was alarming. This car has been abused. It looks like NOTHING in the picture - As you can see from the pictures I took, and the pictures Paul sent, it looks like two different cars.
The entire front of the car is pitted up. It looks worse than my 90k mile audi, and this GTR has 17k miles, "pristine", "beautiful", "never been launched or raced or modded" (I asked Paul this - I think it's the most generic question you can ask, "Has this GTR been launched - can you pull the flicker data"). Paul had fraudulently told me for weeks that it hadn't. However, speaking to the President (who I later spoke with) he informed me, "This car was **driven** and you should have been told that". He even went on to say, "it was probably raced" and that he felt one of the prior owners had tuned the ECU and this was what was causing the issues/CELs. Again, not fact, since he's not a tech, but his thoughts to me.
As I'm looking at the car I'm noticing a ton of wear, nicks, scratches, etc that I was never told about. I have pictures of many of them. I also noticed the rear tires only had a few thousand miles left on them whereas Paul had told me all tires were new. There are even some gashes on the car. Something that should have been disclosed.
Paul tells me to get in and start the car, he has a surprise for me. Probably the most unprofessional statement made by Paul yet. I start the car and it's throwing a CEL. He says, it's OK because I'm "going to get the honor to meet the owner of Forged because we are going to flatbed the GTR there to get fixed."
Now I can't even test drive the car because it's throwing a CEL and we have to drive 50 miles each way w/the car flat bedded to get it fixed. I was starting to get really confused that this was even happening. I went inside and my wife and I were trying to understand the issue.
Paul basically said, "The techs flashed the ECU w/a 2010's software, not a 2009. We don't have the 2009 so we have to go to Forged to get it." I really didn't understand this at all. Apparently they got on the phone and figured out (maybe someone emailed them the ROM/Flash file, I don't know), but they fixed it, however another issue evolved and the car was now throwing a transmission related CEL. Paul said no worries the GTR techs at Nissan are on the phone right now with their head tech fixing it.
Paul immediately says, "lets start the paperwork." I'm literally in a daze and as I'm walking to my car to get the paperwork, I stopped and talked to my wife. We both finally understood the severity of the entire situation. I was very angry and demanded clarity and received non whatsoever.
My wife and I left the dealer, but I turned back and decided I was going to at least speak to the whomever is in charge of the facility. I sat down with Lee Crumpton the President and explained the pictures and the difference from the actual car. I explained how I was told the tires were new. I explained how Paul said the car was never raced or launched but it clearly was. I explained how I was never even called or told about these issues until I actually got to the dealer to test drive and it's throwing a CEL. How did they think this was going to end, when I drove 800+ miles to pickup a pristine, never launched GTR and it's throwing a CEL and cannot even legally be sold to me (NYS will not allow inspection of a vehicle that is throwing a CEL).
Even more so outrageous, all morning I was told different excuses to delay me coming to the dealer. I explained this is NO way to treat someone, for a 6,700 car or a 67,000. At this point Lee was understanding and wanted to go back and see what the deal was. Apparently he only found out about this deal that morning. As cordial as Lee was, this was appalling.
Lee left his office to investigate the issue with the car, returned shortly , and explained the CEL that was now being thrown, they cannot fix and will need to order part(s) from Nissan and this could take 1-2 days and there is no way he could even sell the car at this point - and no way I'd even buy it. I left and drove 15 hours to get home.
To recap:
- Was lied to about taxes from Paul Miller
- Was lied to about refundable deposit Paul Miller, told truth by Alex Hoang
- Was lied to about quality of car, background of car by Paul Miller
- Sent *selective* and VERY deceiving pictures of car - Even after I asked for specifics (like close-up of rock-chip damage) by Paul Miller
- Was lied to about tire condition by Paul Miller
- They were asking 67500 (66,500), so it's not like I was getting a deal. A car like this should be price at 55-58k IMO. Any other GTR priced at 67k is in EXCELLENT condition. They fronted like this car was in that realm - it is not. I figured buying from the dealer would be smart for a GTR - could guarantee warranty, car is checked, save money from taxes on trade in.
- Was not told truth all morning for delay by Paul Miller, Alex or anyone.
- Was told flatbedding my GTR to Forged to get fixed was a "surprise"
- Was asked to proceed with paperwork when GTR is throwing a CEL and I've not test driven it.
- Still awaiting my deposit to be refunded. I understand this can take a few days (or at least that's what they all say...)
- Spent about 30hours in the car, ~2000m additional miles on my Z, assorted travel expenses and other costs related to removing my aftermarket Z items. Sure some of that would have been done, BUT, I was suppose to NOT have the Z and HAVE a working, "pristine", "never been launched" GTR.
I will give little credit to Lee Crumpton, President of Gwinnett Place Nissan for speaking with me and seeming to understand my issues. He was very sympathetic and a bit confused / upset as to how this could happen. However, it is very disconcerting to have all of this happen under someone's supervision and authority.
He said I can send him all my travel expenses and I will be sending them to him tomorrow. He also proposed that once the car is fixed he would flatbed it to NY, I could test drive and decide if I want it, and he would flatbed my Z back to GA, all expenses paid for by him. Who knows if this is true or not, but I would not do business with them and raise caution to others considering it as well. It is unfortunate, but factual that they cannot be trusted. Who knows what other issues are wrong w/the car, never even got to drive it ...
I wish I could say I should have done more "due diligence". But I clearly did. I asked many questions, was very thorough and cautious and when I received answers I had no reason to not believe them.
In retrospect, I was obviously wrong. Should I have walked away from the deal after the first red flag, the false information regarding the cost of the car and taxes, yes. But I didn't. I've been eyeing GTR's since they were C110s, R32, R34s, etc etc. Even the C10 is beautiful. I saw an opportunity to get one, a color I really liked, from a GTR Certified Nissan Dealer (which was very important to me at the time, regarding warranty, because of all the horror threads I've read w/the 09's and transmissions). Buying a GTR isn't a casual decision for me. I felt I asked the right questions and had everything lined up the best I could. GTR customers deserve a completely different quality of salesmanship and I would caution anyone dealing with Gwinnett Place Nissan.
Errata:
Images of the emails I quoted above:
- http://dl.dropbox.co....07.15%20PM.png
- http://dl.dropbox.co....07.30%20PM.png
- http://dl.dropbox.co....08.02%20PM.png
- http://dl.dropbox.co....08.13%20PM.png
- http://dl.dropbox.co....09.06%20PM.png
- http://dl.dropbox.co....09.43%20PM.png
- http://dl.dropbox.co....15.24%20PM.png
