[elf_cruiser]

Hey all - I'm looking for info from those of you who regularly track your GTR's. I'm planning to purchase one in a few months, and it will see 5 or 10 track days per year. Since the car comes from the factory with a staggered setup, it seems logical to trust Nissan's research and just upgrade to wider tires for track use, but maintain the same proportion of F to R stagger. However, I've seen that some people out there are running a balanced F and R setup. Does the GTR suffer from understeer with the factory setup? If anyone has some personal experience with staggered vs balanced setups, I'd sure appreciate it.

Thanks!

 

[icarus]

The OEM staggered setup is great for most drivers. I do not buy into the "massive understeer" tag that many seem to want to put on the GT-R. My feeling is, if I understeer into a corner, it's because I did not execute it well. There are so many things that can minimize or eliminate understeer - braking points, steering and throttle inputs, trail braking, left-foot braking. That said, I run a square setup, 10.5 wheel widths, on all 4 corners but primarily so I can rotate to get the most wear out of my tires.

 

[elf_cruiser]

I would agree for the most part, however IMHO the big problem with AWD cars is on corner exit, not entry. Power-induced understeer is far more pronounced than understeer caused by the simple weight imbalances of AWD platforms.

Did you notice that the squared setup created any power-induced oversteer, versus the factory setup?

Tks in advance...

 

[seanm]

it seems logical to trust Nissan's research and just upgrade to wider tires for track use, but maintain the same proportion of F to R stagger. However, I've seen that some people out there are running a balanced F and R setup. Does the GTR suffer from understeer with the factory setup? If anyone has some personal experience with staggered vs balanced setups, I'd sure appreciate it.

When it comes to a street car, Nissans path might make sense. However, when it comes to a track car, Nismo would be the guys to watch.

http://www.2009gtr.c...-available.html

They run a square setup.

A square setup will allow you to get a lot more life out of that left front tire.

 

[GTB/ZR-1]

I would agree for the most part, however IMHO the big problem with AWD cars is on corner exit, not entry. Power-induced understeer is far more pronounced than understeer caused by the simple weight imbalances of AWD platforms.

Did you notice that the squared setup created any power-induced oversteer, versus the factory setup?

Tks in advance...

Yes.

The GT-R does not behave like an Evo or STi in mid-corner & corner exit when giving it the whip. It behaves more like a big Z06--especially when power-on w/ a square setup. I've run both (square & stagger). The stagger will give one more confidence when really gettin' it. If (as stated above by icarus) the entry is managed, power can be applied sooner w/ the stagger. Just get enough camber in front (-2.5--2.8), and some toe-in in the rear (ESPECIALLY when square), and the car is good.
I personally prefer a nuetral car (who doesn't), with a scent of push @ the limit. The stable rear gives me extreme confidence, so I can throw the car around.
Granted, my car also has KW coilovers, so if you're on stock suspenders, YMMV.

 

[evodude]

I'll add my concurrence to the above commenters. I've also run staggered and square on the track - I think most track day folks will notice a difference with the sizes they end up going to; whether staggered or square. While not intentionally testing the various setups (stuff was on order during the summer last year; which is track day season), I ran three different setups.
1. stock with OEM Dunlops; and experienced a fair amount of understeer on exit - and entry when I overcooked it (driver error). Wear on tires is incredible in this configuration - and of course staggered gives you no real options for rotating other than flipping the tires around on the rims to wear the other side of the fronts (which is of good use on the road but useless on the track as you're going to spend a big portion of the time on the outer edges of the tires during cornering.
2. square tire set up with the stock rims. I got Pilot SuperSport 275/35x20s all around for the increased treadwear rating and the price. I ran a track day with this and it was definitely less understeer due to the increased rubber up front and decreased width in the rear. Again, my driving is the main issue, not so much the tires; but under the same conditions (my consistent mistakes), it pushed a lot less. I will say that overall grip was down on the Michelins vs the Dunlops - but this is a function of the treadwear rating and construction. It still corners like its nobody's business and I had no problem staying with OEM-equipped GTRs in the turns/sweepers.
3. Square set up tires on 10" Enkei GTC-01s; which finally came in late in the season. Even better turn in on these rims, if not a stiffer ride than the stock wheels. I didn't notice any appreciable difference in handling other than the car seemed a little lighter on its feet. Unsprung weight is reduced about 65lbs total with this set up, but would never pretend to 'notice' 65 less pounds in the car - my butt isn't that good.

BL - certainly more rubber in the front (proportional to the rear) is going to mitigate inherent understeer, that's just physics. As the wise gents above said, however, much more to do with one's skill and technique than the suspension/tire set up. That said, I prefer the square set up for the same reasons as these guys - more life out of a set of tires (they're my daily summer tires) because you can rotate them; and a little less push on the track without any big sacrifices in overall grip. If you can afford it, I'd go square. There are about a zillion opinions on this forum on what size to square it up with - I leave that to you.

 

[icarus]

There is a lot of wisdom in this thread... well said, well said.

 

[elf_cruiser]

Thanks guys - sounds like square/balanced tires is the way to go. That's what I'm running now on my Audi S5, and I can get it to snap oversteer during trail braking on corner entry, but corner exit is always understeer when the power is on. Unless maybe if it's wet

I'll post up here again once I get the car - just planning ahead at this point. Thanks!

 

[Raydius]

Thanks guys - sounds like square/balanced tires is the way to go. That's what I'm running now on my Audi S5, and I can get it to snap oversteer during trail braking on corner entry, but corner exit is always understeer when the power is on. Unless maybe if it's wet

I'll post up here again once I get the car - just planning ahead at this point. Thanks!

Yep I tried 255/305 stagger on my S5 and didn't like it -- looks fantastic on the street but wobbly at the limit on the track (had KW V3s, Stasis sway) -- went to 255 all around with a better tire (Advan Neova AD08) and it was much more predictable at the limit. Btw I still have those wheels/tires lying around (sold my S5) if you are interested.

 

[elf_cruiser]

Yep I tried 255/305 stagger on my S5 and didn't like it -- looks fantastic on the street but wobbly at the limit on the track (had KW V3s, Stasis sway) -- went to 255 all around with a better tire (Advan Neova AD08) and it was much more predictable at the limit. Btw I still have those wheels/tires lying around (sold my S5) if you are interested.

Cool - thanks for the offer, but actually I'm running the AD08's as well, 275/30/19 all around and love them. Great on the track and not bad for a daily driver. The S5 has been a great car, but it's time to step up a notch in performance, and the GTR makes the most sense for me...